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#274626 - 03/16/15 06:04 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit (shaken not blown) [Re: ireckon]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: ireckon
For every plea whistle, the blog says, "Pea froze, but whistle still worked." I don't know what that means because "frozen pea" implies the whistle is not making a sound. As far as I am concerned, a whistle that works does not have a frozen pea.


A conventional pea whistle is, acoustically speaking, a vessel flute. The same as an ocarina, and obeys the same equations as an vessel flute. Even with the pea jammed in place, or removed altogether, it will generate a steady tone. I had a couple of de-pea'd (neutered?)whistles, and aside from having a lowered pitch, work as well as the unaltered models.

Just a though, but if any of the manufacturer's are listening, an open ended whistle, instead of the conventional close ended whistle, would make debris a lot less of a problem. Getting pocket lint out of the bottom of a small whistle is a pain in the rear. Blowing it out the end of a open ended tube, not so much.
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#274627 - 03/16/15 06:42 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit (shaken not blown) [Re: Mark_R]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4865
Loc: SOCAL
A good description of whistle "physics" is at wiki Police whistle.
I linked to the section on police whistles but the physics and math discussions above it I suppose would be interesting if I could stay awake. I suspect that when you add a pea what you are doing is adding an object that moves around and disrupts the flow which causes a warble rather than allowing a steady tone. Remove the pea and you get a steady tone. Freeze the pea and you have a partial obstruction in the chamber which the air flows around -- it's a different tone, but it's still a whistle. in my totally physics challenged opinion wink

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#274628 - 03/16/15 06:43 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit (shaken not blown) [Re: Mark_R]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1627
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
A conventional pea whistle is, acoustically speaking, a vessel flute. The same as an ocarina, and obeys the same equations as an vessel flute. Even with the pea jammed in place, or removed altogether, it will generate a steady tone. I had a couple of de-pea'd (neutered?)whistles, and aside from having a lowered pitch, work as well as the unaltered models.


That's good info, thanks.
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#274631 - 03/17/15 04:48 AM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit (shaken not blown) [Re: Russ]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Speaking of physics, I had taken a series of oscilloscope FFT readings of various whistles a while back. Assuming they post in the same order as I'm uploading them..
1) Closed end cylinder whistle, approx 1 inch effective length.
2) Two tone marine flat whistle. AKA "lifejacket" whistle.
3) Harmonica with the cover removed. Note the large number of harmonics produced by a free reed vs a fipple.
4) Storm Whistle with a light blow. Not enough to get the pea moving. The fundamental I'd a close match to the advertised 3150 hz frequency.
5) Storm Whistle note the drop in frequency once the pea gets moving. My WAG is the air being dragged around by the pea is damping the oscillations.




Attachments
tube whistle fft.jpg

2015-03-01-17-06-06.jpg

2015-03-01-17-19-48.jpg

storm whistle no pea.jpg

storm whistle.jpg


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Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

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#274660 - 03/18/15 08:21 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: ireckon]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: ireckon
He said the pea froze on the Acme 660 and the Storm. Sorry, I don't believe it...

Further, he summarily claims all of his pea whistles froze up. That's just fishy...

...I'm highly skeptical he got the peas to freeze in the Acme 660 and the Storm.

...Sorry, I don't believe that either. This guy has a bias against pea whistles and has decided to perpetuate the myths.


Your suspicious attitude is unwarranted. I know the author of that blog personally and have trained in field survival skills with him. BigPig is a veteran of the National Park Service's law enforcement rangers and has very, very extensive field experience.

I think he would be happy to explain his whistle testing in more depth with you if you would simply ask.

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#274703 - 03/20/15 07:44 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: Mark_R]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1627
Loc: Northern California
I know this is a thread about flat whistles, but I don't want to start a new thread just to talk about the Acme 560:

http://www.acmewhistles.co.uk/xcart/product.php?productid=64

Does anybody have thoughts? I just ordered one. It's only slightly bigger than the Acme 660, and reviews say it's louder with a deeper tone. The Acme 660 is already incredibly loud.

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#274705 - 03/20/15 08:17 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1627
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: ireckon
He said the pea froze on the Acme 660 and the Storm. Sorry, I don't believe it...

Further, he summarily claims all of his pea whistles froze up. That's just fishy...

...I'm highly skeptical he got the peas to freeze in the Acme 660 and the Storm.

...Sorry, I don't believe that either. This guy has a bias against pea whistles and has decided to perpetuate the myths.


Your suspicious attitude is unwarranted. I know the author of that blog personally and have trained in field survival skills with him. BigPig is a veteran of the National Park Service's law enforcement rangers and has very, very extensive field experience.

I think he would be happy to explain his whistle testing in more depth with you if you would simply ask.


It's just my opinion, and you took my words out of their context.
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#274712 - 03/22/15 06:43 AM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: Mark_R]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
I emailed him. I use the storm whistles for both my home and my outdoor kits, so hopefully we'll get some clarification on what he means by "jammed".

Big Pig's reply
Quote:
In regards to the "jamming" peas, it was just temporary. The whistle still made noise, but there was no pea to make it "trill" and to my ears, the volume was lower. Sometimes it would clear after another blow and sometimes it would take two attempts. It always cleared, and I wouldn't let it stop me from carrying one of those whistles. In fact, I will most likely be equipping my SAR team with the Windstorm , which I find to be a good balance on performance and size after a few more tests.


Edited by Mark_R (03/22/15 02:56 PM)
Edit Reason: Added reply
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#274714 - 03/22/15 09:35 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: ireckon]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 849
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I know this is a thread about flat whistles, but I don't want to start a new thread just to talk about the Acme 560:

http://www.acmewhistles.co.uk/xcart/product.php?productid=64

Does anybody have thoughts? I just ordered one. It's only slightly bigger than the Acme 660, and reviews say it's louder with a deeper tone. The Acme 660 is already incredibly loud.



I don't think you could go wrong with the 560 as a general purpose whistle. From what I've seen it's just a wider variant of the 660.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#274715 - 03/23/15 11:24 PM Re: Flat whistles for urban kit [Re: Mark_R]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1358
I think all the controversy over pea type whistles are overblown (no pun intended.) I cannot think of one survival scenario where blowing on the whistle and worrying about the pea freezing is realistic. If someone is all that worried that the weather is extreme cold enough to freeze the pea to the inside of the whistle, simply keep it in your pocket, inside of a coat or cupped in the palm of your hand between uses as it would be very unlikely that you would be blowing on the whistle nonstop.

As for the best or loudest type of whistle? Lab and controlled testing cannot come close to duplicating anywhere near real world field conditions of wilderness survival whistle use. For example, wind strength, wind direction, rain, snow, humidity, tree cover, vegetation, open terrain, mountain, hills, lakes, rivers, canyon walls, persons overall physical and physiological condition and a thousand other variables. All these conditions and variables will all produce different results as conditions can change dramatically by the minute or hour. In an urban environment, there are 1000's of more variables to think about how faraway a whistle will be heard...or not heard at all.

In reality, the best whistle is the whistle you have on your person when needed the most...

I carry Fox 40 whistles and not that I think they are the best. Rather that the Ministry of Forests and Lands here give away these whistles for free by the 1000's each year. Needless to say, I have more then a lifetime supply of the Fox 40 whistles.
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