Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#272896 - 11/18/14 02:20 AM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: Russ]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Russ
Are you ready for 30 years of colder temps, much colder... ?

Dang. And I just bought a ton of shorts and sandals on the advice of the global warming crowd. Now I gotta go buy long johns and mukluks?!

Top
#272907 - 11/18/14 06:31 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: haertig]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Just acquire a versatile wardrobe. I am just back from a quick trip to South Dakota, wearing a parka I last wore on Denali twenty-five years ago. I left my Crocs and cargo shorts behind in So Cal.

Hot or cold, I am ready. Among other things that render me skeptical is the political tone of his arguments.

Hot or cold, someone will be right. Let's just say that the science of long term weather prediction is in its infancy.



Edited by hikermor (11/18/14 07:19 PM)
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#272925 - 11/19/14 04:30 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: Russ]
Treeseeker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 189
Loc: California
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Top
#272926 - 11/19/14 04:46 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: Treeseeker]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
True, but determining the actual facts seems to be an issue...
The Climate Crisis Hoax being just one article discussing the the topic of AGW fraud...
Quote:
...Other fraud is evident through public exposure of e-mail files retrieved from the Climate Research Unit (CRU) at Britain’s University of East Anglia. Scandalous exchanges among prominent researchers who have fomented global warming hysteria confirm long-standing and broadly suspected manipulations of climate data. The communications also reveal conspiracies to falsify and withhold information, to suppress contrary findings in scholarly publications, and to exaggerate the existence and threats of man-made global warming. Many of these individuals have had major influence over summary report findings issued by the IPCC. Still other evidence comes from mouths of government officials, international climate summit organizers and leading science spokespeople recorded in candid public admissions.

Another lie claims that there is a consensus among climate scientists that a known man-made global warming crisis exists. Official statements to the contrary presented by more than 650 international climate-related experts who presented contrary official testimony recorded in a 2008 U.S. Senate minority report suggest otherwise. So do petitions signed by more than 30,000 scientists that have challenged IPCC’s 1995 procedures and report representations. Those circumstances prompted Dr. Frederick Seitz, former president of the U.S. Academy of Sciences, the American Physical Society, and Rockefeller University to write in The Wall Street Journal: “I have never witnessed a more disturbing corruption of the peer review process than events that led to this IPCC report.” ...


So apparently a number of folks in the global warming community feel that they are entitled to their own facts. Even if AGW is real, the fraud at the center of the studies taints the conclusions.

Top
#272928 - 11/19/14 05:03 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: Russ]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
The problem is, when you do stupid stuff and lie and manipulate data, you are forever tainted by that. You will never be trusted again, even in cases where you may be right. You have trashed your reputation.

An example: Many years ago I would sometimes donate to Greenpeace. Save the baby seals and all that. Then I saw a news article where they scaled some Navy ship and repelled down hanging offensive banners off it. What the heck? How stupid and pointless is that? Subsequently, they have never gotten any more money from me and I don't give them an ear when they try to convince me why I should. They may do some good things, but they are infiltrated by idiots.

Same thing goes for these climate scientists and their dire headlines about global warming (or global cooling). I don't know what their motivations are, but I don't listen to what they say any more, they have trashed their credibility. I'm not saying that global warming/cooling is real or fake, just that I have zero trust in those who are spouting off their predictions. Therefore, it is a non-issue for me at this point in time.

Top
#272931 - 11/19/14 06:05 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: Russ]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
So there's no overwhelming consensus about climate warming among scientists, huh? Nasa says otherwise
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/


About the emails from University of East anglia, or the so called "climagate". Among several thousands emails you'll find nothing but a few lines that can be interpreted in a less satisfactory manner. This was in 2009, with a second batch of emails released in 2010, and it has been investigated up and down ever since. Several hearings and commites have found absolutely no evidence of fraud, conspiracy or other misconduct. Clearly not good enough for climate warming deniers.


Climate deniers, if leading scientists all over the world can't change your mind then I don't think I can write anything that will have the sligthest impact on the way you view the world.

Top
#272933 - 11/19/14 08:14 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
There is so much politics, rhetoric and noise to go with the bad science and outright fraud that whatever good science there is to support AGW is largely being drowned out.

Top
#272934 - 11/19/14 08:39 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Just to reiterate the point MostlyHarmless makes, there is almost universal consensus among those scientists who actually do real research that human influenced global warming is real. The supposed "controversy" among scientists is bogus.

Nearly all of the "scientists" who are quoted as denying global warming either have little or no real qualifications to speak about climate, and/or are not publishing their alleged data in mainstream peer reviewed climate journals. Note that the Mr. Casey in the original post in this thread is neither a climate scientist by training nor has a publication record in the field of climatology.

See Phil Plait's article: Climate Scientists Overwhelmingly Agree Global Warming Is Real and Our Fault
Quote:
So, the bottom line: The vast majority of scientists who conduct climatological research and publish their results in professional journals say humans are the cause of global warming. There is essentially no controversy among actual climate scientists about this.

Of course, if you read the Wall Street Journal or the contrarian blogs, you might think the controversy among scientists is bigger. But you’ll find that the vast majority of people writing those articles, or who are quoted in them, are not climatologists. You’ll also find many, including politicians so vocally denying global warming, are heavily funded by fossil fuel interests, or lead institutes funded that way.

Because deniers tend to go to the OpEd pages and TV, rather than science journals, the public perception is skewed in their favor; people think this is a bigger controversy than it is. The only controversy here is a manufactured one; made up by people who are basing it on ideology, not facts, evidence, and science. That’s not just my opinion; that statement itself is backed up by facts, evidence, and science.


There is debate among climate scientists, but it is about the details. They debate how fast we will warm, how hot it eventually will get, how high the sea will rise and how fast it will rise, etc. There is no longer any serious debate among real climate scientists about the central idea that the climate is warming as a result of CO2.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#272935 - 11/19/14 08:50 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: chaosmagnet]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
There is so much politics, rhetoric and noise to go with the bad science and outright fraud that whatever good science there is to support AGW is largely being drowned out.


You do realise that "whatever good science" is in fact the accumulated knowledge of the world's scientists in a number of fields related to climate science?

It's not "good science" versus "bad science". It is THE science. AGW is happening. The uncertainties are how much, how fast and how bad will the effects be.

The amount of "politics, rhetoric and noise" depends largely on what media you choose to follow. From my view, there's no drowning of good science.

Top
#272937 - 11/19/14 10:44 PM Re: Are you ready for 30 years of cold? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Is the Earth on a warming trend now? Yes.

Has it been on a warming trend before? Yes.

Were humans to blame for previous warming trends? Seeing as how they weren't even around for many of them, probably not.

Are humans to blame for the current warming trend? Don't know.

Will the Earth have a future cooling trend? Probably, since it's had them before.

Will humans be to blame for any future cooling trend? Don't know.

It's silly to argue whether the Earth is warming or cooling right now. It's pretty simple to stick a thermometer in the ground (so to speak) and measure things over time. The question is: Is the current warming abnormal, not part of the Earths normal cycle, and proven to be caused by humans? That's what I'm not 100% convinced about. Some scientists say yes, others say no, others say we don't know. It's one thing to take measurements and report them (that part of science I trust). It's more difficult to ascribe a cause/effect relationship with any certainty on something as large as a planet.

Warming is occurring at this exact moment in time. My "hunch" is that humans are playing some role, I don't know how big, in warming. And I think scientists are only a small step beyond a hunch at this time. So, what should the response be? Is a response warranted? If so, how big of a response?

It seems like every time someone asks the question, "Is this an abnormal temperature increase, not part of the Earths cycle, and are humans the cause of it?" then the response is "I can't believe you are denying that warming is happening!" That is a redirect away from the question that was asked.

Top
Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
March
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 429 Guests and 467 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes
5367 Registered Users
Newest Posts
What did you do today to prepare?
by dougwalkabout
03/27/24 11:21 PM
Zippo Butane Inserts
by dougwalkabout
03/27/24 11:11 PM
Question about a "Backyard Mutitool"
by Ren
03/17/24 01:00 AM
Problem in my WhatsApp configuration
by Chisel
03/09/24 01:55 PM
New Madrid Seismic Zone
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/04/24 02:44 PM
EDC Reduction
by EchoingLaugh
03/02/24 04:12 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.