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#273748 - 01/17/15 10:06 PM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: acropolis5]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
The DC Fire and EMS service provided the DC Mayor a preliminary report on the incident, which has been released. Here:

http://mayor.dc.gov/sites/default/files/...ary-12-2015.pdf

Some of the members who are involved with Fire/EMS services may find it of interest. It is 37 pages and includes a time line, transcripts of 911 calls and e-mails related to the incident.

The problem with the radios had been identified a four days prior to the incident, but no corrective action had been taken.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#273750 - 01/18/15 12:02 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: bws48]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
bws48, thanks for the link to the preliminary report. It is fascinating. The part about the doors that could not be opened in an emergency is very disturbing. As is the failure of coms. An article in WaPo indicates that emergency coms in the tunnels has been a longstanding issue. t sounds like the fire department responders did indeed switch to simplex mode on their radios, as I surmised up thread.

Hopefully the impending lawsuits will force some significant changes at metro.
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#273753 - 01/18/15 12:57 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: AKSAR]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yep. On page 6 of the report it discusses the lack of 800 MHz comms within the L'Enfant Plaza station. Apparently the FEMS comms are supposed to piggyback on the Metro comms system but couldn't due to that comms issue.

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#273755 - 01/18/15 01:47 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: chaosmagnet]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
You're going to EDC a long fiberglass rod to go with your AC voltage detector?

I left out the word "telescoping". It fits easily in a pocket.

BUt I looked up the specs and it has two problems: it's only rated around 60 Hz, and it's discontinued.

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#273758 - 01/18/15 05:15 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen
I left out the word "telescoping". It fits easily in a pocket.


I grew up in NYC, I visit there a couple times a year, and I've used rapid transit in a number of other cities -- I've ridden mass transit rail thousands of times. I can count on the toes of one elbow how many times I wished I was EDCing a telescoping fiberglass rod along with a DC voltage detector. I can't believe that I would trust such an instrument with my life if I happened to have one while evacuating from a train.

I stand by my original statement with one modification. If you're not a railroad professional, there's no equipment that you can EDC that will safely test if the third rail is live.

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#273760 - 01/18/15 08:11 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: acropolis5]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
So here is the result of my follow-up research on NYC Subway /PA PATH train evacuation procedures/possibilities. First neither NYC or PA publishes anything near as informative re rescue or evac, as does the DC Metro website. Their bad. They're probably afraid of encouraging bad exploratory behavior, etc.

Most of my emergency / survival books have little or nothing on this subject. An exception is Aton Edwards' "Preparedness Now" , "Expanded and Revised Editon" (2009). Strange. I am generally underwhelmed by this book, but he is ahead of the pack on this issue.

I did find an interesting & informative U-Tube video entitled, " How to survive a fall in the subway tracks NYC". This video purports to identify how to get back on the platform and the safe(r) refuges in between, under, & alongside the track, but does not mention ducking under the platform ledge? Is that not viable?

What appears to be the fullest info is contained in two entries on the ITV Squad. com website. One entry on evac to the surface and one on falls onto the track, including instruction on how to signal an oncoming train to stop.

NOTE THAT I CANNOT AND DO NOT VOUCH FOR THE SAFETY OR CORRECTNESS OF ANY OF THIS INFORMATION. CAVEAT EMPTOR!


Edited by acropolis5 (01/18/15 08:13 AM)

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#273779 - 01/19/15 04:23 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: acropolis5]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Has DC Metro gone downhill or has it always been bad? I lived in DC about 18 years ago. I thought of the DC Metro as a well-oiled machine and way better than driving. Was I just young and naive?
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#274053 - 01/30/15 09:27 PM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: chaosmagnet]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 474
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen
I left out the word "telescoping". It fits easily in a pocket.


I grew up in NYC, I visit there a couple times a year, and I've used rapid transit in a number of other cities -- I've ridden mass transit rail thousands of times. I can count on the toes of one elbow how many times I wished I was EDCing a telescoping fiberglass rod along with a DC voltage detector. I can't believe that I would trust such an instrument with my life if I happened to have one while evacuating from a train.

I stand by my original statement with one modification. If you're not a railroad professional, there's no equipment that you can EDC that will safely test if the third rail is live.


Agree, most underground railways including the one in question, use DC power supply at about 750 volts.
This is almost certain to be fatal if touched and there is NO CERTAIN WAY OF DETECTING IT without equipment that is unreasonably costly and bulky to carry, and also is DANGEROUS TO USE without proper training.
A suitable test lamp or electrical meter has to be connected between the live rail and a suitable grounded item such as one of the running rails. This requires care and training in order not to receive a fatal shock whilst testing. The testing device also requires testing on a known live source to avoid a "false negative" from a defective tester.
And even use of the correct tester by a trained person, only shows the rail to be dead WHEN TESTED and does nothing to prevent it being re energised.


Edit to add, this is the sort of tester used in the UK on electric railways.
live rail tester
NOT TO BE USED WITHOUT TRAINING also a bit bulky and expensive, and does nothing to prevent re-energiseation.

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#274067 - 02/01/15 03:36 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: acropolis5]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 390
Loc: CT
Key word: "re-energiseation." It's alive, it's always alive, and if you touch it, you're dead.
_________________________
Improvise,
Utilize,
Realize.

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#274114 - 02/04/15 06:27 AM Re: Washington D C Metro Evac [Re: acropolis5]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
I'm sure that many of you read/ watched the reports of the Metro North train collision/derailment with a Jeep stopped in a crossing, inYonkers, NY. Six deaths, 5 passengers in the first train car and the Jeep driver who was reported to be outside of the vehicle. ( So, perhaps it was not " suicide by train".). At least 12 additional casualties.

The WNBC report I watched said the train filled with smoke and at least some passengers escaped by "breaking " the windows. I think those windows are polycarbonate. I will be interested in learning how the windows were breached, i.e.. by design thru an installed release mechanism or by actual physical breaking of the transparent panel?

Lesson to be gleaned from the story, in part: Do not sit in first or last car(s) of any train and if you must, then sit as far from the nose or rear end as possible. Additionally, learn the emergency exit releases, including the windows and location of emergency gear( if any) e.g. intercom, axe, first-aid-kit, flashlight.

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