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#273397 - 12/27/14 04:54 AM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: hikermor]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 478
Colorado got it right with their CORSAR card.

Included with hunting and fishing licenses.

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#273400 - 12/27/14 06:53 PM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: duckear]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: duckear
Colorado got it right with their CORSAR card.

Included with hunting and fishing licenses.

You got that right! I buy a fishing license every year, even though some years I never make it fishing. One, it supports outdoor activities, and two, it covers me if I ever need rescue. It costs next to nothing.

My take is that if a SAR organization gets taxpayer dollars, then that's what they get. You don't get to bill in addition to that. If the tax money you get is not enough, ask for more tax money, or go private, bill for everything, and realize you will not get tax subsidies. You shouldn't be able to bill people that don't use your services (the vast majority of taxpayers) and also get to double-dip bill those who do. Pick the one you want to bill, and that's it. And you also have to realize that in the private world, you only get to bill those who want and ask for your services. If you go out looking for a lost hiker because you found their car in a parking lot, and they really weren't lost or in need of your help in the first place, then you don't get to bill them. It would be different if a relative/friend engaged your services to find the lost person. Then bill the person who retained you. But not if you are getting tax money for your response. You can't have it both ways.

There is a town here in Colorado that is now trying to bill out-of-towners for any fire department response if they are in a car accident. What they are finding, is that people are just avoiding their town (which happens to be a mountain touristy town, which nobody HAS to go through, but people can choose to). Soon enough, I think the town will decide that the head of the fire department that come up with this plan is a bonehead, and will get rid of them. That's my prediction.

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#273403 - 12/27/14 11:17 PM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: haertig]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: haertig
If the tax money you get is not enough, ask for more tax money.


I'm not in the US, but my in experience, asking for money as a government organisation never really result in more money.

Having a mayor incident and not adequate responce does seem to boost the budget for a short periode...

What I see is organisations just get told they get X percentage less budget next year and they have to make do. Ofcorse somehow still need to comply with rules and regulation.

And just go private is not really easy. Well actually it is in some cases, when the govenment start to use contracters and allow them to bid for the lowest prices. Still payed with tax money. Results varey widely.

For example; The US contractor airtanker fleet is a bit outdated to say the least...

Originally Posted By: haertig
Soon enough, I think the town will decide that the head of the fire department that come up with this plan is a bonehead, and will get rid of them. That's my prediction.


The fireservice cost money. If they don't get enough, they can't provide a (proper) service. Periode. You can 'get rid' of people, but that does not solve the underlying problem.

I heard of eastern european volenteer fire services who show up in the west to pick up a donated 20 year old fire engine and other old equipment and not having money to pay for the diesel to drive it back. Basically planning to beg for fuel on there way back, just like they do when they are back home...
_________________________


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#273408 - 12/28/14 12:46 PM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: Tjin]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Tjin

Originally Posted By: haertig
Soon enough, I think the town will decide that the head of the fire department that come up with this plan is a bonehead, and will get rid of them. That's my prediction.


The fireservice cost money. If they don't get enough, they can't provide a (proper) service. Periode. You can 'get rid' of people, but that does not solve the underlying problem.


Billing out-of-towners exclusively and in an isolated position is not a smart way to collect that money. Doubly so if the town lives from the tourists. The message is fairly clear.
It is predictable that the plan is going to make the problem worse by lowering the income of the towns people. If accidents with visitors are so frequent that they really matter, the police should put in a little more effort to encourage people to comply with traffic rules.
_________________________
If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#273659 - 01/12/15 05:00 AM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: Be_Prepared]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Sadly, people will continue to do as they like, and continue to rely on the good will of the general public to get them out of the trouble they get themselves into. Some day soon, I expect we will run out of the ability to pay for these benevolences, and reckless fools will revolt that they can no longer depend on other people to save them in their folly.

Until then, I don't expect the situation in this country to change much. We've built a multi-generational culture on reckless adventure and entitlement expectations. When the funding finally does run out, and SAR volunteers are too busy trying to keep themselves alive to be of much help to someone stuck on a wet hilltop in a t-shirt, hearts will break, and balance will be restored.

But hey, let's go ahead and use it up now, while still have enough to go around. After all, if we don't, someone else will.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#273968 - 01/26/15 06:51 PM Re: Baxter State Park SAR asking for $10,000 [Re: haertig]
cedfire Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
Originally Posted By: haertig
[quote=duckear]
There is a town here in Colorado that is now trying to bill out-of-towners for any fire department response if they are in a car accident. What they are finding, is that people are just avoiding their town (which happens to be a mountain touristy town, which nobody HAS to go through, but people can choose to). Soon enough, I think the town will decide that the head of the fire department that come up with this plan is a bonehead, and will get rid of them. That's my prediction.


More widespread, is that some fire departments that provide EMS services will actually bill insurance companies, hoping to get some sort of reimbursement. The problem is that medical care, training, supplies, equipment, drugs, etc. are expensive. It's an outside-the-box approach, but not one that I agree with. You're right -- I think if the majority of the public knew about it, there would be changes made *very* quickly!

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