Anyone read or watch on the news, the breakdown of a D C Metro train, in a tunnel, 900 ft outside a station. It was a smoky mess and there was a death, apparently from respiratory distress. Rescue didn't arrive for about an hour. Many passengers self evacuated down the track , to a vent shaft and up 3-4 flights of stairs. The balance were led back to the station, by FF's, out of a darkened tunnel. The power had been cut to insure 3rd rail was "off".

Living in N Y Metro area, this is a real concern. Same re tall building evac. It's why even my small urban kit has Xcaper mask, swim googles, light Nomex/ Kevlar gloves and the smallest Pietzl button cell head lamp. It has finally dawned on me that I should know a bit more regarding where the third rail is located , testing to see if it's live ( throwing my SS pen on it, fom a few feet awy?) and how far apart escape points are located. NOTE TO SELF FOR IMMEDIATE ACTION.

Note; off does not mean it's safe. There is residual power due to the condensator effect after the power has been taken off the rail, which can still kill you.

Powerlines/rails need to be grounded before it's safe.

(not sure if my terminology is correct)

There is no equipment you can EDC that will safely test if the third rail is live.

I've never ridden the DC metro. In an NYC subway train, if it's safe to remain on the train your best bet is to do so until escorted off by MTA personnel or first responders. If you have no choice but to exit, if it's safe to do so head into a connecting car until you find one that's safe to wait in until MTA or first responders get you out.

If you have no choice but to exit the train, look before you leap. The third rail will be on one side of the two regular rails. Be very, very sure to not touch it.

Don't pee on it either!

I've been following this story. I'm not hugely knowledable about the Metro, though I get down to DC every few years, and I've ridden the DC metro on those trips. The Washington Post seems to have the best coverage.

In most cases, one is probably best off by staying in the car and waiting for rescue. However, there are times when an immediate life threat may make it advisable to self evacuate. This appears to have been one of those instances. WaPo has published a Metro Emergency Guide. See page 4 about the anatomy of a tunnel. There is a very narrow walkway. The "Third Rail" (touch it and you die) is identified by a white cover plate.

It will be very interesting to read the NTSB report on this incident when it comes out. I get the feeling the response was not as good as it should have been, even allowing for the usual confusion in this kind of situation. Washington Metro seems to have a rather poor safety record. EDIT: There seems to be a serious issue with safety oversight of the Metro.

Hopefully, one of our ETS members from the DC area can give further insight on the Metro.

This will not work. You need something that makes contact with both the rail and something with a different voltage (e.g., electrical ground). For the same reason, you can often see birds landing safely on a live electrical wire. Don't try to test the third rail especially if you have to ask how to test it. Even if it's not hot right now, it could be hot a second from now. It's best to treat the third rail like a gun and assume it's loaded.

Well, I guess I should share my negative opinions on Metro. . .

It has been a very long while since I routinely rode Metro, but it sounds like things have not improved since I did, and one or 2 trips in the past year or so are consistent with that.

The local news reports on this incident all refer to the "lack of a culture of safety." And we hear the usual "we have to study what happened...etc" from the Metro officials.

From my experiences, I always thought Metro failed to look at it's operations from a "customer" point of view, or care about "the customer experience."

One example that always bothered me was that lack of clear, audible announcements of the next station; although they were made, the audio almost always so bad, you were lucky if you could hear and understand it. A minor annoyance if you know your way around; just lucky that DC doesn't have a lot of tourists who don't (sarcasm intended). Of course, if announcements are inaudible, this is going to be a problem in an emergency.

A second example is that in my observations and experiences, Metro employees (if you could find one) always seemed annoyed or put upon if someone had a question or problem with one of the fare card machines or readers, or even simply asked for directions.

Third, it was not unusual for a train to stop in a tunnel-- and just sit there-- without an announcement as to why or for how long-- being made by the driver. So you waited and hoped.

IMO, such non-customer centric attitudes feed into (or maybe result from) the larger "lack of a culture of safety" the news reports are talking about.

Now, if I do have to go into DC, I drive and risk the tickets and pay the parking fees.

irecokon, point and advice taken re SS pen and assuming charged status of the third rail. I know to always avoid the third rail, but I was clearly off re the test idea. Many thanx. AKSAR, thanx also for the link to the DC Metro safety guide. Useful reading and some good general advice. I'm going to search for a similar guide for the NYC subway and NY NJ PA PATH trains. Chaosmagnet, thanx also, albeit I knew that and was concentrating my post on the " need to evac" scenario.

Details are starting to emerge.

News reports that the new Fire Department radios did not work in the tunnel, and that they had to use "runners" to communicate with the surface. See:

http://wtop.com/local/2015/01/fire-department-source-radios-werent-working-metro-smoke-incident/

It's good to hear DC went to encrypted radios, but it's hard to understand them not having tested those radios in the tunnels prior to now. Doh...

I'm not a rocket surgeon, but it seems like in that situation they could have just stationed several people within radio range of each other in the tunnel so as to relay messages to the surface.

Depends on how the radios are set and used. Most modern radio system has a direct and trunk modes. But can't do both at the same time. Trunk modes allow channel control and stacking message by a centralised control. While direct mode is local only.

Radio repeaters are mandatory in large public buildings and special object (like tunnels) in a lot of countries to prevent this issue.

It's not new and the solutions is well known. Just having the will and resources to implement it varies. Not sure what the local DC law requires...

Tjin is right. The article linked by bws48 says it was a digtital trunked radio system. The simple minded way to think of it is that the signal goes as digital packets from one radio to a computer (usually through a repeater), then back to the other radio. While there are many advantages of this sort of system, one big disadvantage is that both radios need to be able to "see" the computer. If either one can't, perhaps by being down in a tunnel, then they can't talk to each other. I don't know how difficult it would be to have enough repeaters in the subway tunnel system to make it work in the tunnels, but I suspect it would be expensive. I'm not a radio expert so there are probably other work arounds to make it function in the subways.

There are however many advantages of digital trunked radio systems, which is why it is becoming the standard for public safety agencies. The biggest advantage is to allow many users to operate on a limited number of discreet frequencies. This is very advantageous in a big city, where there are many, many hundreds of fire, police, and EMS responders all working at one time. Also the dispatcher can very quickly set up a "channel" specific to an incident. All the reponders to that incident (fire, police, EMS) can talk to each other, but not have interference from nor interfere with other communications in the surrounding area. The signals can be easily encrypted, which is particularly important for law enforcement.

These systems are still relatively new for many agencies, so one of the issues is symply finding out where they do and don't work. To some extent you can model where the repeaters will cover, but there are almost always some unexpected holes in the coverage.

So in this case, it sounds like a few cheap walkie talkie's would have been better than the expensive digital-trunk radios.

IIRC the Metro system has comms with the trains. Maybe the regional (DC/VA/MD) FD's could develop a comm system that would leverage off the Metro comms while they are in the tunnel. The FD's could go into "Metro mode" and use that system to transition into their trunk. Probably more expensive than walkie-talkies or runners and it would require a bit of commonality -- can't have that...

Not necessarily. The digital trunk radios I've worked with can be switched into simple VHF simplex mode. In that case they work just like any ordinary VHF. The firemen would first have to realize that they weren't hitting a digital repeater, then have to switch over. It still might not work all that well in the tunnels. VHF is (more or less) line of sight. In a relatively straight tunnel it would probably work fine. If you were trying to talk to someone around a bend, it probably would not work very well, if at all. Even if you could talk using VHF simplex through the tunnel, you then would not be able to talk to the rest of the reponse team on the surface, who would presumably be working in digital trunk mode. (As I noted up thread trunk mode has many advantages for a big incident.) You might need to have a human "repeater" at the tunnel entrance, with two radios (one VHF simplex and one digital trunk) to relay information.
This is probably what is really required here.

Communication is always a huge issue in any incident. What little I know about radios has been learned the hard way on land SAR operations. Digital trunk systems have many advantages in normal (above ground) operations for a city. But special situations may require special solutions. I'm not sure the fire dept is totally at fault here. It sounds like there is a serious issue of no agency having safety oversight over Metro, with the ability to enforce changes. Given that emergencies have occured in the subways in the past, and will no doubt occur again, planning for robust emergency communication (and testing those plans) seems like a no brainer. METRO should have worked this issue before.

It would be very interesting to learn how other cities with extensive subway systems handle this problem. (New York? London?) I have to believe somebody has found solutions that work.

An Extech DV50 or something like it with a long fiberglass rod probably would do it. The DV50 has a telescoping 39" fiberglass pole.

The third rail doesn't constantly arc over to the cars, outer rails & every other conductor nearby so there's a limit to the voltage there.

... though I can't remember what AC frequencies the DV50 can handle and that might be a problem.

You're going to EDC a long fiberglass rod to go with your AC voltage detector?

Another small problem with the AC detector might be caused by the fact that the third rail is powered by DC.

But on a more serious note, the initial report has been released and the power to the third rail was not cut:

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/ntsb-releases-initial-findings-fatal-metro-smoke-incident/

(includes photo of the damage done by "the arcing incident")

The DC Fire and EMS service provided the DC Mayor a preliminary report on the incident, which has been released. Here:

http://mayor.dc.gov/sites/default/files/...ary-12-2015.pdf

Some of the members who are involved with Fire/EMS services may find it of interest. It is 37 pages and includes a time line, transcripts of 911 calls and e-mails related to the incident.

The problem with the radios had been identified a four days prior to the incident, but no corrective action had been taken.

bws48, thanks for the link to the preliminary report. It is fascinating. The part about the doors that could not be opened in an emergency is very disturbing. As is the failure of coms. An article in WaPo indicates that emergency coms in the tunnels has been a longstanding issue. t sounds like the fire department responders did indeed switch to simplex mode on their radios, as I surmised up thread.

Hopefully the impending lawsuits will force some significant changes at metro.

Yep. On page 6 of the report it discusses the lack of 800 MHz comms within the L'Enfant Plaza station. Apparently the FEMS comms are supposed to piggyback on the Metro comms system but couldn't due to that comms issue.

I left out the word "telescoping". It fits easily in a pocket.

BUt I looked up the specs and it has two problems: it's only rated around 60 Hz, and it's discontinued.

I grew up in NYC, I visit there a couple times a year, and I've used rapid transit in a number of other cities -- I've ridden mass transit rail thousands of times. I can count on the toes of one elbow how many times I wished I was EDCing a telescoping fiberglass rod along with a DC voltage detector. I can't believe that I would trust such an instrument with my life if I happened to have one while evacuating from a train.

I stand by my original statement with one modification. If you're not a railroad professional, there's no equipment that you can EDC that will safely test if the third rail is live.

So here is the result of my follow-up research on NYC Subway /PA PATH train evacuation procedures/possibilities. First neither NYC or PA publishes anything near as informative re rescue or evac, as does the DC Metro website. Their bad. They're probably afraid of encouraging bad exploratory behavior, etc.

Most of my emergency / survival books have little or nothing on this subject. An exception is Aton Edwards' "Preparedness Now" , "Expanded and Revised Editon" (2009). Strange. I am generally underwhelmed by this book, but he is ahead of the pack on this issue.

I did find an interesting & informative U-Tube video entitled, " How to survive a fall in the subway tracks NYC". This video purports to identify how to get back on the platform and the safe(r) refuges in between, under, & alongside the track, but does not mention ducking under the platform ledge? Is that not viable?

What appears to be the fullest info is contained in two entries on the ITV Squad. com website. One entry on evac to the surface and one on falls onto the track, including instruction on how to signal an oncoming train to stop.

NOTE THAT I CANNOT AND DO NOT VOUCH FOR THE SAFETY OR CORRECTNESS OF ANY OF THIS INFORMATION. CAVEAT EMPTOR!

Has DC Metro gone downhill or has it always been bad? I lived in DC about 18 years ago. I thought of the DC Metro as a well-oiled machine and way better than driving. Was I just young and naive?

Agree, most underground railways including the one in question, use DC power supply at about 750 volts.
This is almost certain to be fatal if touched and there is NO CERTAIN WAY OF DETECTING IT without equipment that is unreasonably costly and bulky to carry, and also is DANGEROUS TO USE without proper training.
A suitable test lamp or electrical meter has to be connected between the live rail and a suitable grounded item such as one of the running rails. This requires care and training in order not to receive a fatal shock whilst testing. The testing device also requires testing on a known live source to avoid a "false negative" from a defective tester.
And even use of the correct tester by a trained person, only shows the rail to be dead WHEN TESTED and does nothing to prevent it being re energised.


Edit to add, this is the sort of tester used in the UK on electric railways.
live rail tester
NOT TO BE USED WITHOUT TRAINING also a bit bulky and expensive, and does nothing to prevent re-energiseation.

Key word: "re-energiseation." It's alive, it's always alive, and if you touch it, you're dead.

I'm sure that many of you read/ watched the reports of the Metro North train collision/derailment with a Jeep stopped in a crossing, inYonkers, NY. Six deaths, 5 passengers in the first train car and the Jeep driver who was reported to be outside of the vehicle. ( So, perhaps it was not " suicide by train".). At least 12 additional casualties.

The WNBC report I watched said the train filled with smoke and at least some passengers escaped by "breaking " the windows. I think those windows are polycarbonate. I will be interested in learning how the windows were breached, i.e.. by design thru an installed release mechanism or by actual physical breaking of the transparent panel?

Lesson to be gleaned from the story, in part: Do not sit in first or last car(s) of any train and if you must, then sit as far from the nose or rear end as possible. Additionally, learn the emergency exit releases, including the windows and location of emergency gear( if any) e.g. intercom, axe, first-aid-kit, flashlight.

I have ridden the metro north trains while traveling in NY for work. The trains have emergency exit windows. There are handles attached to removable rubber gaskets. You pull the handles down removing the gaskets and then the window pops out allowing you to escape. I hope to never have to try it because it is a good distance to jump out of the window to the ground even if you try to hang down before letting go.

The accident occurred in Valhalla NY.

The reports I've heard were that the driver stopped on the tracks because there was traffic ahead and the approaching train arm went down onto her car. She got out of the car to check for damage and then got back into the car and drove forward and was hit by the oncoming train.

Do I even need to say never stop on train tracks or try to beat an oncoming train or does this accident speak for itself?

For anyone who may be a new driver: if your car breaks down on the tracks and you need to get out and run away you should always run in the direction towards the train as the impact will push the vehicle further down the tracks and you can be injured while eacaping.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/02/03/m...on-harlem-line/

According to the news, the collision was at the crossing near Taconic State Parkway and Commerce St. Google maps had a street view of both the intersection and the railroad crossing. The intersection is controlled by a light, and there are gates, limit lines, and lights at the railroad crossing.

The latest news report I'd that the jeep was stuck on the tracks when it got hit. It appears she stopped on or past the limit line, and then tried to drive clear around traffic on the unpaved tracks adjacent to the crossing. I can see how it's possible to get stuck on those. So there were two errors: stopping on the tracks, and not abandoning the vehicle when it got stuck.


I did have to pull out the emergency widows on an Amtrak train a couple of years ago. The rubber strip pulls out in one long loop that required going hand over hand to remove out completely. And, the window then tips into the car. The window is heavy enough that it's a two person job to stow it out of the way.

We'll never know, but maybe she was one of those people that would rather die trying to fix something they did wrong, rather than just save themselves. Kind of like how pilots will forcefully put a plane into the ground in an open field to avoid killing anyone else.