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#273190 - 12/08/14 11:26 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
I dunno, he shook them both about the same and fluffed the TinderQuick about the same as the guy in the other video you posted. I suppose the TinderQuick would have done better had it been fluffed, dried for 5 minutes in the sun, and peppered with napalm but if you have to babysit a piece of tinder, maybe it's not the best choice for the job. Perhaps the fact that the TinderQuick acts like a sponge is not a good feature to have.

The TinderQuick in the other video definitely did better though.

In my testing a single TinderQuick tab burns for less time and with less intensity than a PJ ball made from a standard sized cotton ball...

That is funny Glock-A-Roo smile

Its not just a dunk in the video , he squeezes the tinderquik underwater , why doesn't he squeeze it above water? You know, to get the water out?
In the kitchen I've never tried to shake a sponge dry, or a towel for that matter, I've always squeezed both to get the water out , and squeezed more than once.

Hmm, firecord, two shakes and its dry enough. Hmm tinder quik, two squeezes and ... is one better than the other? Maybe , depends on your criteria. Is this difference important? Probably not smile


Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo

However to be fair, I think there is significantly more material (both cotton and wax/PJ) in the PJ ball, as its easily 2-3 times the size of the TinderQuick. When faced with having to use damp materials, I'd reach for the PJ ball first.

A lot of tinder sellers don't list weights :)(or btu values )

this review says each tinder quik fire tab is 0.024 oz ea or 0.7 g

This means about ~26 BTU (waxpaper) to ~31 BTU max (solid wax)
Firecord would be the same

Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo

I'm glad you posted the Zombie Tinder, I'd not seen that before. Watching their videos, I think I'd actually prefer a PJ ball.

I'd prefer pj balls too, but I like honest charts smile poisonous? some chemical unknown, so score 4

They actually sell "Jellied Ginned Cotton Tin" $6.95 for a 4oz tin, their version of PJ balls

For same price at a dollar store I can make four such tins in about four minutes smile

A lot of products that make cents for survival kits don't quite make it for camping kits ... hmm, firecord shoelaces? "Tensilary" strength probably isn't there smile

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#273192 - 12/09/14 03:41 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Treeseeker]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: Treeseeker
From the videos, the Zombie Tinder looks very much like a cotton ball wrapped a few times with a piece of string, then tied off and dipped in melted wax. Nice idea.

But, I can see why it comes in a tin. If it were not in a rigid package, it could get crushed and the wax coating could crack and thus leak when it was exposed to water. The tin would also contain any melted wax if the tinder was exposed to any heat high enough to melt it.


Apropos of nothing this is similar to a firestarter I've experimented with that I call the "Fireball". I start with a large cotton ball which I wad/compress down as small as I can. Then I wrap it tightly in plastic, either cling wrap or an old plastic bag. Then I wrap this with a cotton pad (the kind designed for cosmetic application) and tie it with butcher's cord. This then gets dipped in either paraffin wax or gel wax. I've tried using both and a mixture of the two combined.

Overall it's a lot of work but very effective. Using pure wax you almost need a knife to use them due to how solid they are. The gel wax stuff made for candlemaking burns better as is somewhat flexible. The plastic wrap between the inner core and outer wax layer keeps the inside bone dry under all conditions. A lot of work to make but pretty effective.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#273193 - 12/09/14 04:01 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear


yup, fire cord has a clear edge
what would have been interesting to me,
is squeeze the tinder-quik and spark it immediately
is squeeze the tinder-quik and wait one minute and spark it
but naturally a more thorough examination might not be in the sellers interest smile


I haven't tried the seller's "fire cord" but I've had mediocre to mixed results with my own home-made version of the same. From the seller/inventor's website it's simply jute cord impregnated with wax. Perhaps he's found a novel way to coat the jute but in my versions it didn't work all that well. Too much wax and you wind up with a solid mass that's hard to frizz up. Too little and it's not very waterproof. The devil is in the details and the quantity of wax must just right IME. Again, maybe some of you folks and the inventor have a found a better way to make them than I have. But I gave up on the format.

I don't really have a dog in the fight. Everyone should use whatever they feel is best. But I can interject a few observations that are subjective facts, not preference or opinion. One is that wax isn't hygroscopic but jute cord is, very much so. Two, ESBIT is totally non-hygroscopic. You can soak it in water probably indefinitely and it will still burn. Perhaps I will see how long I can soak the stuff. Would it dissolve after a few months or years? I don't think so but perhaps I'll try it to see.

I really love the Tinder-Quik myself. A tab is much smaller than nearly any other tinder I've found. It's water resistant but not totally waterproof. IMOHO though it's irrelevant to my purposes. Why would you not simply keep your tinder material dry? I understand that your canoe can capsize, accidents happen, etc. But even something pretty low tech like a ziplock baggie will protect your tinder. And the higher tech stuff like the mylar bags that I seal using a chamber vacuum machine will survive things that a human won't.

If you're relying on natural tinder then there's some luck involved but if you're carrying your own tinder, why not carry dry tinder to begin with instead of worrying about stuff that will work wet? confused wink
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#273203 - 12/09/14 07:10 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
I haven't tried the seller's "fire cord" but I've had mediocre to mixed results with my own home-made version of the same. From the seller/inventor's website it's simply jute cord impregnated with wax. Perhaps he's found a novel way to coat the jute but in my versions it didn't work all that well. Too much wax and you wind up with a solid mass that's hard to frizz up. Too little and it's not very waterproof. The devil is in the details and the quantity of wax must just right IME. Again, maybe some of you folks and the inventor have a found a better way to make them than I have. But I gave up on the format.


I don't know how he did it but GearWard found the right way to make the product.

Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
...if you're carrying your own tinder, why not carry dry tinder to begin with instead of worrying about stuff that will work wet?


I use firecord because I have integrated it into a survival bracelet, which is constantly exposed to moisture and there is no room there for tinder that is bulky, needs waterproof packaging, or can't resist the moisture on its own. I carry PJ balls in a waterproof vial as my go-to tinder; the firecord is a very low profile backup. It's a narrow, niche role but firecord works in that role.

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#273205 - 12/10/14 05:47 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Crowe]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
I see there are two products called FireCord; one is paracord and the other is jute. So I think maybe we're each talking about a different one. I don't know what is in the paracord stuff. How do you like it? The reviews at Amazon are generally good although one reviewer said it smells like lighter fluid.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#273206 - 12/10/14 08:07 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
I see there are two products called FireCord; one is paracord and the other is jute. So I think maybe we're each talking about a different one. I don't know what is in the paracord stuff. How do you like it? The reviews at Amazon are generally good although one reviewer said it smells like lighter fluid.


No, I'm using the Gearward FireCord wax-infused jute, not the ITS jute paracord or the similarly named 550 firecord. I don't like either of the last two products since they require you to pick apart your cordage to access the jute. I also doubt that the ITS product's jute will stay dry over time.

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#273210 - 12/11/14 02:52 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
I have various tinders vacuum sealed into 3"x4" mylar bags. The pouches are very very sturdy; I've sent a few to some fellow ETS'ers and none of the packages have failed so far as I know. I make up little micro-kits by using about a 2" x 2" square of Tinder Card- this stuff is awesome. It's stiff so it makes a great backer and it burns like a candle. A 1/4" x 1" strip will burn for about a minute or so. You can score it with a knife and light it with a spark if need be. Generally I will set one x 4gram ESBIT tablet on it along with four or five Tinder-Quiks, then seal it up. The mylar keeps it all dry and has a zip-lock so you can open it and reseal what you don't use.

Occasionally I'll make a slightly more deluxe version with a few matches or even a Spark-Lite sealed in with the tinder.


You can enhance tinder-quik's ignitability by charring. I found that out after experimenting with solar ignition. TQs that were charred lighted much quicker. You don't even need to char the whole piece, just a corner and you maintain the rest. I also use small zip-loc baggies, just large enough to store 4 pieces and store them everywhere.

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#273212 - 12/11/14 03:07 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear

also interesting comparison, under Zombie Tinder criteria tinder-quik rates the worst smile




Hmmm...Zombietinder.com rates ZombieTinder the best of all. What a shocker. wink


No kidding. Review was terribly biased but then again what can you expect from someone who doesn't know the difference or the correct usage of the words effect and affect? And apparently in his opinion only ZombieTinder can be used to "light charcoal for a BBQ, light a camp fire or a wood stove or use as a candle for emergency light or create very useful char for bush-craft fire making, etc."


Edited by Roarmeister (12/11/14 03:12 AM)

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#273214 - 12/11/14 06:09 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Roarmeister]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister


You can enhance tinder-quik's ignitability by charring. I found that out after experimenting with solar ignition. TQs that were charred lighted much quicker. You don't even need to char the whole piece, just a corner and you maintain the rest. I also use small zip-loc baggies, just large enough to store 4 pieces and store them everywhere.


That makes sense. I find it to light very well as-is but that's good to know. I buy it in lots of 100 or more on eBay, never let my stock get too low.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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