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#273088 - 11/29/14 06:07 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Maybe that is why Doug Ritter puts it in the PSP and PSP+.A bit of foil can be used as a wind screen,heat reflector,pot lid and to wrap a bit of food to coal bake.Foil can be folded to fit in a lot of places.It's a good multi tasker to include in kits.

BOATMAN
John

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#273095 - 11/30/14 03:52 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Phaedrus]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear

Hmm, could you elaborate on why you're excited about tinder cards? How is it more than just wax + paper?
So far the list of pros:
*kind of laminated into layers
*rigid but easy to work with
*seems to be pretty water resistant
*burns long and slow from top
*burns bright and hot from the bottom
*score it with a knife and light it with a spark
*can be bought for $6.50 or so

Your strategy of vacuum-seal-into-zip-lock-mylar seems fantastic as a tinder carry option , esp long term
smile


I'm not sure how the Tinder Card is manufactured. It smells a bit like beeswax but probably isn't. I like the stuff for the following reasons:

1) It's rigid. It's not structural strong like wood but more live heavy cardboard. This makes it ideal for several applications. For example I can cut rounds out of it sized to fit the lid of my UCO Match case and once pressed up in there it's stiff enough to stay there. It makes a great backing board, and it will stand up if you lean it up on something.

2) It can be be "frizzed up" while retaining its shape. You can score the top side of it or one end to the point where it can easily be lit with a spark while staying in one shape. Some won't care but I like that for the way I build fires.

3) It burns at a nice, controlled rate. Unlike paper that flares up it's more like a cotton ball soaked with PJ. It's candle-like.

4) Being rigid you can cut it to fit specific spaces. For instance I will often cut it into little sticks that I can slip into a match case.

I like to use it in conjunction with other products. For instance, a cotton ball is great in a match case because it stuffs it up to prevent rattling and works as tinder. But it burns very fast; coating it in PJ is great but it's not much good to pack around matches then.


Thanks, now I see why you're excited, carvability/sculptability ... not really a feature I look for in tinder smile but it makes sense

The manufacturer says tinder cards are made from wood pulp and Stearin, like beeswax from palm oil (candle wax hardener), swedish version of wax+sawdust firestarters for bbq...

speaking of which, wax paper has a lot of the features you mention smile
Durable Wax Paper, 65-square-foot(~168g*18621 BTU/lb ) 6,897 BTU_IT / $1 = ~6,897 BTU_IT/$
tinder card, 18 strips * 10.7 grams ... 100% stearin 7,524 BTU_IT / $6.50 = 1,157 BTU_IT/$
tinder card, 18 strips * 10.7 grams ... 37% stearin 5,750 BTU_IT / $6.50 = 885 BTU_IT/$
tinder card, 18 strips * 10.7 grams ... 100% stearin 7,524 BTU_IT / $10.94 = 688 BTU_IT/$
tinder card, 18 strips * 10.7 grams ... 37% stearin 5,750 BTU_IT / $10.94 = 526 BTU_IT/$

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#273097 - 11/30/14 04:17 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: boatman]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: boatman
Maybe that is why Doug Ritter puts it in the PSP and PSP+.A bit of foil can be used as a wind screen,heat reflector,pot lid and to wrap a bit of food to coal bake.Foil can be folded to fit in a lot of places.It's a good multi tasker to include in kits.

BOATMAN
John
yup:) EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - MISCELLANEOUS / MULTI-PURPOSE GROUP
Originally Posted By: http://www.equipped.org/misc.htm
Plenty of heavy duty (not standard weight) aluminum foil will come in real handy and is among the most versatile of supplies, while weighing next to nothing. It makes a superb heat reflector, provides a fireproof base when needed, can be formed into cups, pots or pans and has numerous other cooking uses and it can be used in various ways for signaling, just to name a few of its many possible functions. You can never have too much aluminum foil around a survival camp.

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#273102 - 11/30/14 05:54 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I generally employ heavy duty foil, and while it is better than the standard stuff, it does tend to wear out, and it isn't all that great for fabricating bowls, etc. Is there something just a bit thicker and tougher, but not thick as aluminum flashing (which is pretty useful stuff also).
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#273103 - 11/30/14 07:19 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: hikermor]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
A heavier aluminum foil has been discussed several times here.The opinion is that heavy duty foil is what the standard foil used to be.It is a matter of manufacturers trying to maintain a production cost and market pricepoint balance.The best you can do is find some new old stock from Grandmas pantry.You may try foil from comercial kitchens.It may be thicker but I doubt it.Comes from same mills(ALCOA) and are just longer rolls.

BOATMAN
John

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#273169 - 12/08/14 02:55 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: ireckon]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I dunked a cotton ball in water, wrung it out the best I could with the help of a paper towel, and tried to light the cotton by using a ferro rod spark. I learned three things from this experiment:

1. A fluffed out cotton ball that is just a tiny bit damp will NOT catch a spark.

2. A fluffed out cotton ball that is just a tiny bit damp will NOT even ignite if I put a naked flame to it.

3. A damp cotton ball (and therefore damp cotton fabric) is a good way to put OUT a fire.

This messed up my confidence. Thus, I'm going to buy some of that Fire Cord Waterproof Tinder and try it out.


GearWard has posted a new video comparing FireCord and TinderQuik after soaking them. The FireCord did really well.

If you've got waterproof space then TinderQuiks and PJ balls are fine. FireCord offers the unique property of waterproofness without additional packaging, even after being flexed and bent. That's why I use it as the tinder in my paracord bracelet.

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#273172 - 12/08/14 11:55 AM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 382
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I dunked a cotton ball in water, wrung it out the best I could with the help of a paper towel, and tried to light the cotton by using a ferro rod spark. I learned three things from this experiment:

1. A fluffed out cotton ball that is just a tiny bit damp will NOT catch a spark.

2. A fluffed out cotton ball that is just a tiny bit damp will NOT even ignite if I put a naked flame to it.

3. A damp cotton ball (and therefore damp cotton fabric) is a good way to put OUT a fire.

This messed up my confidence. Thus, I'm going to buy some of that Fire Cord Waterproof Tinder and try it out.


GearWard has posted a new video comparing FireCord and TinderQuik after soaking them. The FireCord did really well.

If you've got waterproof space then TinderQuiks and PJ balls are fine. FireCord offers the unique property of waterproofness without additional packaging, even after being flexed and bent. That's why I use it as the tinder in my paracord bracelet.


smile results of that gearward test are not too surprising , treating a sponge the same as a pencil, , you can't shake a sponge (tinder-quik) dry like a pencil (firecord)

compare to this video (esp how they're fluffed) d_OlYjeCcJE ? Spark-Lite Tinder Tab water test Jute Twine Lanyard - Zelph
the tinderquik take a dunking, no squeezing under water, they light easy
vaselined jute also lights easy , does not look very greasy the way zelph makes them

also interesting comparison, under Zombie Tinder criteria tinder-quik rates the worst smile

yup, fire cord has a clear edge
what would have been interesting to me,
is squeeze the tinder-quik and spark it immediately
is squeeze the tinder-quik and wait one minute and spark it
but naturally a more thorough examination might not be in the sellers interest smile

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#273173 - 12/08/14 12:29 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear

also interesting comparison, under Zombie Tinder criteria tinder-quik rates the worst smile




Hmmm...Zombietinder.com rates ZombieTinder the best of all. What a shocker. wink
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#273179 - 12/08/14 07:23 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: EMPnotImplyNuclear]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: EMPnotImplyNuclear

results of that gearward test are not too surprising , treating a sponge the same as a pencil, , you can't shake a sponge (tinder-quik) dry like a pencil (firecord)

compare to this video (esp how they're fluffed)


I dunno, he shook them both about the same and fluffed the TinderQuick about the same as the guy in the other video you posted. I suppose the TinderQuick would have done better had it been fluffed, dried for 5 minutes in the sun, and peppered with napalm but if you have to babysit a piece of tinder, maybe it's not the best choice for the job. Perhaps the fact that the TinderQuick acts like a sponge is not a good feature to have.

The TinderQuick in the other video definitely did better though.

In my testing a single TinderQuick tab burns for less time and with less intensity than a PJ ball made from a standard sized cotton ball. However to be fair, I think there is significantly more material (both cotton and wax/PJ) in the PJ ball, as its easily 2-3 times the size of the TinderQuick. When faced with having to use damp materials, I'd reach for the PJ ball first.

I'm glad you posted the Zombie Tinder, I'd not seen that before. Watching their videos, I think I'd actually prefer a PJ ball.

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#273187 - 12/08/14 10:22 PM Re: One Sure Fire - Emergency Fire Bundle [Re: Crowe]
Treeseeker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 189
Loc: California
From the videos, the Zombie Tinder looks very much like a cotton ball wrapped a few times with a piece of string, then tied off and dipped in melted wax. Nice idea.

But, I can see why it comes in a tin. If it were not in a rigid package, it could get crushed and the wax coating could crack and thus leak when it was exposed to water. The tin would also contain any melted wax if the tinder was exposed to any heat high enough to melt it.

I also noted that in their videos they are using wood that is dipped into water for a few seconds. This is not the same as wood that has been soaking in water (or rain) for multiple days.

I'm not saying it is not a good product, just noting a few things that came to mind while visiting their website.

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