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#271067 - 07/29/14 02:41 PM Re: Six days in high Sierra with badly injured leg [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This pair of reports from Rocky Mountain NP are a thoughtful bookend to this incident. Signalling of some sort (cell phone, mirror, or whatever) is really necessary.

Obviously, a fairly busy day at the park...

Rocky Mountain National Park (CO)
Body Found On Longs Peak

Early on the morning of Friday, July 25th, a man climbing the Keyhole Route on Longs Peak called the park and notified rangers that he and other members of his climbing group had seen a man’s body below The Ledges. Rangers reached the location just after 10 a.m. and confirmed that the man was dead.

The incident is under investigation, but foul play is not suspected. A Forest Service helicopter assisted with recovery efforts. The man’s body was flown to the helipad at Upper Beaver Meadows and was transferred to the Boulder County coroner's office.

[Submitted by Kyle Patterson, Public Affairs Officer]

Rocky Mountain National Park (CO)
Seriously Injured Man Rescued From Backcountry

On the afternoon of July 25th, the park received a cell phone call from a 31-year-old man who reported that he’d fallen an unknown distance while glissading down Gabletop Mountain and had sustained numerous injuries.

The Forest Service helicopter employed earlier in the day for a body recovery from Longs Peak was utilized for aerial reconnaissance. Using cell phone GPS coordinates, rangers were able to determine his general location below Gabletop Mountain; the helicopter’s crew provided his exact location.

A rescue operation was begun. Four rangers and rescue equipment were flown to Loomis Lake between severe thunderstorms. They then hiked to his location, a steep cirque above the lake at an altitude of around 11,300 feet, arriving just after midnight. The injured man greatly aided in his rescue by moving down a steep band of rock, then down a steep snow field toward the rangers.

The rangers found that the man was ambulatory, but that he was suffering from life-threatening injuries. They lowered him 500 feet with ropes and then assisted him an additional 700 feet down steep mountainous terrain to Loomis Lake. A paramedic on the park's rescue team provided advanced life support throughout the incident.

The man was flown to Beaver Meadows Road, then taken by a Flight for Life helicopter to St. Anthony's Hospital for further treatment.

Park rescue team members feel this was truly a life-saving mission. The man was fortunate to have cell phone coverage in this remote location, which has very limited coverage.

[Submitted by Kyle Patterson, Public Affairs Officer]


Edited by hikermor (07/29/14 02:47 PM)
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#271076 - 07/30/14 12:42 AM Re: Six days in high Sierra with badly injured leg [Re: jshannon]
Treeseeker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 189
Loc: California
Quote:
Treeseeker, we might have to agree to disagree on some of these points. One useful tool in evaluating preps or lack thereof is to ask yourself the question "Would this have changed the outcome?"


AKSAR, you seem to be saying that anyone that survives an outdoor incident is properly prepared and educated in preparedness. That would include anyone that had taken absolutely nothing with them and did things that actually made the situation worse.

I don't think that is what you meant, but defining preparedness by survival doesn't seem logical to me. As I mentioned in a previous message, there are lots of totally unprepared people that have been rescued, but probably more that have not.

Here is a recent local (San Diego) example that illustrates my point well. Two women were hiking in the local mountains in 85F weather and had no water. Both were rescued but one later died from dehydration. So, using your logic one was prepared and the other wasn't--even though neither of them had any water. I would argue that neither were prepared.

To answer your above question regarding this incident, "Would this have changed the outcome?" Yes, both would have survived.

Regarding my statement about the man rescued in the Sierra's, being inexperienced and uneducated in preparedness, granted this is subjective. The people on this forum (you and I included), tend to be more prepared than the norm, so perhaps I expect more from others.

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#271077 - 07/30/14 02:27 AM Re: Six days in high Sierra with badly injured leg [Re: Treeseeker]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Treeseeker
Quote:
Treeseeker, we might have to agree to disagree on some of these points. One useful tool in evaluating preps or lack thereof is to ask yourself the question "Would this have changed the outcome?"

AKSAR, you seem to be saying that anyone that survives an outdoor incident is properly prepared and educated in preparedness. That would include anyone that had taken absolutely nothing with them and did things that actually made the situation worse.
No, that isn't what I was saying. Not quite sure why you got that impression? I clearly said there were some things he could have done differently. I just don't think he was as totally unprepared as you seem to believe.

Regarding my "Would this have changed the outcome?" question, I said it was one tool, but I did not suggest that it is the only appropriate tool. Note that in applying that tool to your three points that 1) he didn't take food, 2) he didn't have first aid gear, and 3) he had no means signaling), I said that the first case (lack of food) didn't matter in this case but could have if it had taken longer to find him, the second case (lack of FAK) probably didn't effect the outcome since he was able to improvise a splint, but that the third case (lack of means to signal) most certainly did mean that it took longer to find him than it should have.

I absolutely did not say that because he survived he was properly prepared. I said he passed the survival test. I also said did some things right, and he did some things wrong. Although he did some things wrong, I don't believe that automatically means that "He was obviously a very inexperienced hiker and uneducated in preparedness" which was what you explicitly stated.

One issue I have with some of the discussions of survival on ETS is that people often assume a very judgemental attitude. There is all too often the implicit assumtption that we would never get into the same kind of trouble because we are way too prepared, and that anyone who does get into trouble must therefore be inexperienced and unprepared. I try to take a more humble view. There have certainly been times I have found myself in situations that I was not properly prepared for. When I read stories about survival situations I try to learn what I can from other people's mistakes, but also give them credit for what they did right.


Edited by AKSAR (07/30/14 02:32 AM)
Edit Reason: clarity
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#271078 - 07/30/14 02:40 AM Re: Six days in high Sierra with badly injured leg [Re: AKSAR]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Learning from other's mistakes is much less painful than experience.

I'm big on good navigation -- aka, staying found,, GPS, map, compass, it's all good. Staying found is probably the number 1 way to not become a statistic. I'm also big on signaling -- PLB, signal mirror(s), whistle(s), a little surveyor tape. Then I take water and try to not break anything.

I've only ever broken one bone and that involved beer. Fortunately the guys I was with got a cab and we made it back to the hotel. A quarter century later and I hike solo, so being careful is a rule.

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