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#269295 - 04/21/14 03:05 AM Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
When "bugging out" or "getting home" Most people think of either driving or walking -- both good but what about other ideas; a bicycle, electric scooter, public transit, canoes etc.?

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#269296 - 04/21/14 03:11 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
I personally, keep a small pair of bolt cutters in my E&E Bag. A master key can be a wonderful thing to have on oneself.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#269302 - 04/21/14 04:10 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: wildman800]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
Wildman800: your bolt cutter comment raises an interesting issue. My EDC/GHB is a kit for a city pedestrian, 11lb.s., all up. Limited tools due to security searches, but I keep a LM Blast, most of the time. In my car, I have a much larger 72hr. pack and vehicle based tools, ax, shovel, Ti pry bar (21") and a 24" bolt cutter. That's a master key, but heavy as hell. I also keep a Channelock 369, 9.5" linesman pliers, with added silicone tape for cushioning & insulation. That small master key will cut fence wire and the like. I can add it to my bag in a walk-out situation. But it weighs more than a pound. Where did you draw the line in weight vs. limited utility in your E&E kit? Do you propose to walk-out with your bolt cutter?


Edited by acropolis5 (04/21/14 05:46 AM)

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#269306 - 04/21/14 12:10 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I include a bicycle in my evacuation plans primarily because I have done a fair amount of bike touring and I have good equipment readily at hand. Traveling by bike, I can slip through traffic jams, take routes not available to larger vehicles, and even lug gear over obstacles.

My bicycle is a Surly LHT, currently with 32mm touring tires (37mm are recommended - much more versatile) with front and rear racks, and low gearing(although not low enough - the next time in the shop I will go even lower, if possible).

The load on the bike is basically light weight back packing equipment, stuffed into front and rear panniers. Included is a lightweight backpack which would allow me to abandon the bike and continue on foot, if necessary.

This works fine for one person, but I have a wife and daughter, non-riders both, so the bike won't work in all situations.

I can easily travel 75-80 miles a day, fully loaded, and can exceed 100 miles if necessary.
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#269310 - 04/21/14 01:10 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: acropolis5]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Acropolis5... a lightweight alternative, but slower would to be a hacksaw blade.. in the simplest version, a split key ring and a stick the ring could slip over with a sawn groove would work as a handle... a pocket knife clip is my probable go to... if you practice with this, cover the teeth of the blade or it will eat up the knife scales


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#269311 - 04/21/14 01:48 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
If you are more limited on weight and size for your tools, here is an option for serious cutting:
Stanley Carbide Grit Rod Saw

This will cut chains and other difficult metal objects. Just tie a loop of cord into each end as a handle.

Usual disclaimer, no affiliation.

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#269312 - 04/21/14 02:21 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Here we are talking about bikes for bugging out, and you guys bring up bolt cutters and hacksaws. this definitely makes bike owners like me very uneasy! smile
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#269313 - 04/21/14 02:32 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: acropolis5]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
I plan on walking out with my bolt cutters. I debated about 6 months whether it was worth the weight or not. I finally decided that because of the distances involved, that it is worth the weight. It is about a 12" pair. The tool that lost the internal debate was a fencing tool which has many uses but it doesn't do anything as well as the actual tool could except for the staple puller. I don't see a big need for it's staple pulling or hammer capability. The wire cutter is only good for cutting wires up to a barb wire size.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#269316 - 04/21/14 03:05 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: hikermor]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Here we are talking about bikes for bugging out, and you guys bring up bolt cutters and hacksaws. this definitely makes bike owners like me very uneasy! smile


Be afraid, young Hikermor, be very afraid!

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#269320 - 04/21/14 04:02 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
When "bugging out" or "getting home" Most people think of either driving or walking -- both good but what about other ideas; a bicycle, electric scooter, public transit, canoes etc.?


When I worked downtown and depended on commuter rail to get there, I had myself a think about hoofing it home 40 miles.

I stashed a good pair of broken-in boots and some other gear in my office, but I didn't have a place to store a bike.

Assuming that the commuter rail was down and it didn't make sense to stay somewhere downtown, my preferred options were as follows:
  • Hop in a taxi and go
  • Rent a car and go
  • Buy a bicycle and go
  • Hoof it


Towards those ends, I always had credit cards and plenty of cash on hand -- enough to buy a decent hybrid bike, which was more than enough for a 40-mile cab fare. I also knew where the car rental places and bike shops were, and where cabs could be successfully hunted.

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#269325 - 04/21/14 08:13 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: chaosmagnet]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
When I worked downtown and depended on commuter rail to get there, I had myself a think about hoofing it home 40 miles.

I stashed a good pair of broken-in boots and some other gear in my office, but I didn't have a place to store a bike.

Assuming that the commuter rail was down and it didn't make sense to stay somewhere downtown, my preferred options were as follows:
  • Hop in a taxi and go
  • Rent a car and go
  • Buy a bicycle and go
  • Hoof it


Towards those ends, I always had credit cards and plenty of cash on hand -- enough to buy a decent hybrid bike, which was more than enough for a 40-mile cab fare. I also knew where the car rental places and bike shops were, and where cabs could be successfully hunted.


Barring massive loss of infrastructure, taxis, buses, and privately owned vehicles are still viable. Paper bus schedules and taxi listings, cash on hand, good shoes, and a comfortable pack will handle most situations. The snag will be that with an unexpected large area event (i.e. 2011 Southwest Blackout), everybody will be scrambling for the same limited resources at the same time. Since these events commonly involve loss of power, you will not be able rent a car, get cash from an atm, or use a credit card.

That is where bikes, scooters, etc. will come into play. With your office space constraint (I'm assuming you're cubical rat like me), a folding bike or scooter stored under your desk may be a good solution. The downside is that these are not cheap (~$300), and the increased speed translates to increased risk of injury.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#269326 - 04/21/14 08:41 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Mark_R]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
[quote=Mark_RWith your office space constraint (I'm assuming you're cubical rat like me), a folding bike or scooter stored under your desk[/quote]

There are scooters small enough to fit under a desk? Are we thinking of Vespas or Razors? I've seen a Razor equipped with some sort of motor, but I don't think it's got much range or speed.

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#269327 - 04/21/14 08:46 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
In almost every picture and film clip of refugees that I can remember,bicycles.If they are not being riden they have everything possible tied to it pushed along by the family.I was going to suggest a folding bike but,Mark R beat me to it.....
BOATMAN
John

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#269328 - 04/21/14 08:56 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Mark_R]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
With your office space constraint (I'm assuming you're cubical rat like me), a folding bike or scooter stored under your desk may be a good solution.


I was. A folding bike or scooter would not have been safe to leave there -- I guess I could have ridden it to and from the commuter rail station. My current job rarely requires me to go to the office; when I do I have my car. I've got much better preps in my car than I was able to have in my laptop bag and my desk at my old job.

I still want a folding bike though laugh.

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#269329 - 04/21/14 08:57 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Bingley]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
With your office space constraint (I'm assuming you're cubical rat like me), a folding bike or scooter stored under your desk


There are scooters small enough to fit under a desk? Are we thinking of Vespas or Razors? I've seen a Razor equipped with some sort of motor, but I don't think it's got much range or speed.


I'm thinking of adult razor style scooters. The Xootr Street is 31x9x13 inches. The Micro Sidewalker is larger at 48x8x22 inches. As best as I can figure, cruise speed is about double walking speed.

You can get folding gas powered scooters (Go-Ped makes several adult models), but I imagine that storing a greasy two stroke under your desk is frowned upon.

I've been looking at these for recreation due to an old knee injury that makes any cycling incredibly painfull. It was never really diagonosed (idiot docs and tightwad HMOs), but was probably IT band syndrome with a lot of of scar tissue complicated by feet flatter then Kansas.


Edited by Mark_R (04/21/14 09:05 PM)
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#269331 - 04/21/14 09:05 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
I've seen advertised and used on TV (I think on an episode of UK Top Gear and used by James May in one of their "races") bicycles that fold up or disassemble into a smallish suitcase that can easily be carried or stored. How useful they are is a different question, but they exist.
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"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#269335 - 04/21/14 09:24 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: boatman]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: boatman
In almost every picture and film clip of refugees that I can remember,bicycles.If they are not being riden they have everything possible tied to it pushed along by the family.I was going to suggest a folding bike but,Mark R beat me to it.....
BOATMAN
John


That reminds me of pictures of Vietcong pushing modified bikes loaded with 500 lbs of gear.
http://www.transchool.lee.army.mil/museum/transportation%20museum/vc-bike.htm

Not really relevant to a get home bag situation, but it demonstrates the amazing amount of stuff that you can transport if you don't have to lift it. I don't know what a stock bike can carry at walking speeds, but I'd be surprised if it was less then 300 lbs.


Edited by Mark_R (04/21/14 09:26 PM)
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#269338 - 04/21/14 11:46 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
'Bike Friday' is one brand - they have very small wheels, so are not as smooth nor as efficient as a full sized bike, but are much faster than walking

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#269339 - 04/22/14 12:00 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

Bicycles strike me as such a basic prep for anyone contemplating "bugging out" or staying in the neighborhood in a situation where gasoline could be in short supply. They can easily be found cheap or even free (ask friends and family if they have old dusty bikes they'd like to get rid of).

We've had on ETS a few good discussions on this subject. Here's one I dredged up. I need to update my equipment list as in the past year I've picked up another bike (hybrid), dog trailer-stroller (Doggyride Novel 10) and the Burley Travoy trailer/hand-cart. I use these items regularly in daily life and am mindful of how useful they would be in some dire scenarios.

Here's one of the old threads: "Bug-Out Bike"

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post187987



.

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#269349 - 04/22/14 05:19 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: gonewiththewind]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
Montanero, believe it or not, I have this blade on a hacksaw frame in my car tool kit. However, I never thought to use it in the fashion you suggest. Your idea is terrific. Much better I imagine than a roll up wire saw. I'm going to have to buy another one and test it's "bendability ".

Les, you also have a great idea. I've seen a simple plastic handle/frame that will hold a hacksaw blade in the same configuration. Sort of like an old fashioned "key hole saw".

However, neither alternative is a quick way to cut your way thru a chain link or razor wire fence, to effect an "escape". And escape is the idea of a master key. I've read that the SOG multitool, with its ratcheting plier/cutter is the best multi for this duty. Anyone have any real life experience?


Edited by acropolis5 (04/22/14 05:19 AM)

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#269350 - 04/22/14 06:48 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: gonewiththewind]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: Montanero
If you are more limited on weight and size for your tools, here is an option for serious cutting:
Stanley Carbide Grit Rod Saw

This will cut chains and other difficult metal objects. Just tie a loop of cord into each end as a handle.

Usual disclaimer, no affiliation.


Very interesting...

For $4.00 I'll have to pick one up to try it out.
Thanks for the tip.

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#269351 - 04/22/14 07:03 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I'm confused by the hacksaws, bolt cutters, etc.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#269353 - 04/22/14 07:51 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
My bicycle is my main method of transport. It's quicker, faster, cheaper and more flexible than any other form of transport for me.

I'm not sure what the idea of all those hacksaw are, but proper bike locks take forever to saw through and small bolt cutters won't cut heavy duty hardened and squared off chains. Also if you are trying to saw my lock off, you might need to be able to run really hard and far.

You could also look for bikes locked with just cables (easy to cut) or U-locks (use leverage)...
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#269355 - 04/22/14 01:06 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: ireckon]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
a small section of hacksaw blade gives me options.. striker for a fire steel, metal or wood saw etc.. takes up very little space and not much weight


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#269357 - 04/22/14 02:52 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Tjin]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I hope no one is recommending tools to assist in theft of a bike during an emergency situation. Really bad form, the owner of that bike may be counting on it for the same situation.

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#269359 - 04/22/14 03:52 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I'm confused by the hacksaws, bolt cutters, etc.

Me too ... I don't see how they relate to the topic.

Originally Posted By: Russ
I hope no one is recommending tools to assist in theft of a bike during an emergency situation. Really bad form, the owner of that bike may be counting on it for the same situation.

I'll second that, too.
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Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#269361 - 04/22/14 05:59 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Acropolis5.. the SOG power tool is highly recommended by Jeff Randall (Randall Adventures and Training).... his articles on EDC and BOBs are very well thought out, and he has a lot of third world experience... I have won several Leatherman models at various 3 gun matches, so that I what I carry

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#269363 - 04/22/14 07:19 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: hikermor]
Greg_Sackett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 225
Loc: KC, MO
hiker,

Right there with you on the touring bike. Fortunately, wife also rides and has her own, but the 2 daughters are more of a problem. The 10 yr old can ride herself but lacks stamina and couldn't carry much. The 6 year old rides a Burley Trail-a-bike, which basically adds another 60 lbs to my ride.

If you have never read Joe Kurmanskie's books on touring while pulling his kids, they are hilarious and have some good ideas on transporting kids by bike. "In Momentum is Your Friend" he pulls his one son on a trail-a-bike pulling his younger son in a trailer. Something like 500 lbs and he rides across the country. Definitely an impressive feat...

If I had the money I'd by 2 tandems and use the girls for stokers. But those things are expensive!

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#269367 - 04/22/14 07:47 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Russ]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Russ
I hope no one is recommending tools to assist in theft of a bike during an emergency situation. Really bad form, the owner of that bike may be counting on it for the same situation.


I don't think the cutters are for bike locks, but for gates and fences. Depending on the emergency, cutting through fenced and/or gated property may be necessary.

As an example; At the time of the 07 wildfires, the only viable escape route from my apartment was to head east toward the fire and then north or south on the freeway. If (when) the fire jumped the freeway, the only way out without a bolt cutter was a single, chapparell lines, two lane road headed west. With a bolt cutter, there were several additional routes available through golf courses. Bicycles could easily navigate the golf cart paths, and the concourses themselves were considerably less flammable then the chapparell bordering them. The fire jumped the freeway 2 days after we bugged out.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#269368 - 04/22/14 08:27 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
I have a Mountain bike with a rear mounted rack. My E&E Kit will convert to saddlebags in seconds and my poncho & bedroll will strap onto the handlebars and rear rack in a few more seconds. Anything else will be carried on my body.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#269375 - 04/23/14 01:42 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
"Bikepacking" seems to be increasingly popular and is relevant to this discussion. REI even has a new product section for it on their website. Seems it is mostly just new marketing of stuff they already carried but notable nonetheless.

http://www.rei.com/h/bikepacking


A lot of great information, trip reports and photographs in the Bikepacking section of the mountain bike forum. Some of these guys (it is mostly guys) are hard-core about making use of every bit of space. I'm particularly interested in the water bottle holders on the front forks and the handlebar setups that accommodate sleeping bags.

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/



.

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#269379 - 04/23/14 03:25 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Mark_R]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
Russ: As MarkR recounted and as I specifically stated, reference to a Master Key, was defined as a fence wire cutter, intend to effect an escape from danger. I had no thought of bicycle or any other theft. I'm sure that the other posters on the reference to a cutter were similarly intended. It's not always a great idea to jump to negative conclusions.

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#269400 - 04/24/14 04:25 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
chickenlittle Offline
Member

Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 102
Loc: Canada
Does anybody rollerskate?
I knew a girl who said she could average more than 10 miles an hour and skate over a whole day on any paved road.
It sounds a bit extreme to me because that would be 80 miles in 8 hours.


Edited by chickenlittle (04/24/14 04:26 AM)

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#269402 - 04/24/14 04:40 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
This idea of cutting fences and such is new to me. Has anybody here actually been in a situation where they are riding their bike and decided to cut a fence to ride through a property? Or is this all hypothetical?
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#269403 - 04/24/14 05:03 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: acropolis5]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
acropolis - I was responding to Tjin's post prior to my last.

As for fences, I've gone through many barbed-wire fences in my years, never saw any need to cut one. Be careful, whoever owns that fence is going to be seriously PO'd.

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#269404 - 04/24/14 06:19 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
Barbed wire fences, you're right! I've never needed to cut one. Hog wire and hurricane fences-in some situations. Such cuts can usually be sewn back up, if there is time, such as from a wildfire.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#269413 - 04/25/14 01:21 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Chickenlittle,I do not think rollerskates are very practical.One con not carry much of a load and maintain balance.If you have to go overland (leave sidewalk/pavement) you will be walking.A bicycle can go either.In a disaster there may be rubble that will bring a skater to a complete and sudden stop.A pebble is all it takes and its ROADRASH city.

BOATMAN
John

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#269414 - 04/25/14 01:55 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: ireckon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: ireckon
This idea of cutting fences and such is new to me. Has anybody here actually been in a situation where they are riding their bike and decided to cut a fence to ride through a property? Or is this all hypothetical?


This is something I have never experienced, or heard of. Even if there is a locked gate, it would be just about as easy to lift the bike and gear over most such obstacles. I have crawled though scores of barbed wire fences, however (when hiking).


Edited by hikermor (04/25/14 01:55 AM)
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#269795 - 05/10/14 06:42 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Any bike is good - esp. if kept in good running order.

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#270017 - 05/18/14 02:10 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Quietly_Learning]
Quietly_Learning Offline
Member

Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
Originally Posted By: Quietly_Learning
Originally Posted By: Montanero
If you are more limited on weight and size for your tools, here is an option for serious cutting:
Stanley Carbide Grit Rod Saw

This will cut chains and other difficult metal objects. Just tie a loop of cord into each end as a handle.

Usual disclaimer, no affiliation.


Very interesting...

For $4.00 I'll have to pick one up to try it out.
Thanks for the tip.


I had to go to the hardware store today so I picked one up. I put a split ring on each side and tried to cut a cylinder of mild steel 1/4" in diameter.

First I put my index fingers through each ring and used a sawing motion. I found the saw blade would want to bend around the cylinder if I put slight downward pressure.

I next held the saw blade in my hand and used it as a file. It was easier and quicker to cut the cylinder.

The process took a little over 5 minutes to cut through mild steel. A hardened steel lock would be considerably longer.

For the slight weight it would work in your bob but if I could hop or go around the fence instead I would.

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#270081 - 05/23/14 12:57 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: hikermor]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Here we are talking about bikes for bugging out, and you guys bring up bolt cutters and hacksaws. this definitely makes bike owners like me very uneasy! smile


I agree...just doesn't sound good!
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#270820 - 07/12/14 07:32 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.

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#270847 - 07/14/14 04:31 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.

Definitely ... last year I picked up a $50 USB chargeable front light capable of 480 lumens. Also, more recently, I grabbed a nice little rear light that is USB chargeable for $10.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#270860 - 07/15/14 02:45 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Greg_Sackett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 225
Loc: KC, MO
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.


No kidding! Just yesterday I got an offer from Fenix for a bike light that would turbo to 1500 lumens! It was over $100 but that is still impressive output.

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#270864 - 07/15/14 10:11 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
LCranston Offline
2
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 201
Loc: Nebraska
Going back to alternate methods-
has anyone ever looked at the electric versions of either the razor scooter or electric/assisted bikes?

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#270865 - 07/15/14 11:24 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I think the 500w hub motored electric bikes have the same caveats as the under 50cc gasoline powered ones in that they do not need a license tag... a wide variety and price on the hub motors and controllers between Chinese and German, some regenerative brake...like the rest of the electric vehicle world.... depends upon the batteries... when lithium iron phosphate or newer technology becomes affordable, probably more interest in the 36v or higher systems... we need to make friends with Chile, Bolivia, and anyone else that mines lithium...

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#270866 - 07/15/14 11:37 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
I've read some pretty positive things about electric assist bikes recently. Here's a Bike Calgary thread where one guy talks a bit about his e-assist fat bike he uses for year round commuting (mid-way down by GenMacSmiley). As you can see on this same thread gas powered ones aren't as warmly received smile. I'm sure there's other info out there ... this is just one I read recently.

Locally, I understand Power in Motion are the guys to go to for this sort of thing and their website seems pretty good for getting some basic info.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#270867 - 07/16/14 07:16 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: LCranston]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: LCranston
Going back to alternate methods-
has anyone ever looked at the electric versions of either the razor scooter or electric/assisted bikes?



Heavy, cost more, more maintenance. In a world were people have a lack of exercise; just pedal. Cheaper and burning fat still beats using power.
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#270869 - 07/16/14 01:48 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
RNewcomb Offline
Member

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Iowa
They are certainly heavier, and depending on the design, the batteries can really shift the center of gravity up on the frame making them a little trickier to ride.

I've been looking at Prodeco for these bikes. They aren't the super high-end bikes you find in a lot of the bike shops, but they seem to be gaining a good reputation.

Their Outlaw is a Li-Ph 52v battery. Apparently this bike can get up to 30mph.

Anyone who is seriously considering purchasing one of these, I'd recommend they go down to their local bike shop and try one out. The amount of power they have is a little surprising.

What I like about them:

They are pretty eco friendly, at least compared to the small SUV that is my daily commuter

They sure make the hills a breeze, to the point you don't even need to pedal up them. The level of "assist" is adjustable.

Blasting by those guys in spandex is kinda fun...

What I don't like:

The batteries wear out. If the battery is proprietary, and it probably is, and the company goes out of business, as a lot of them will, your really stuck with a VERY heavy bike.

They are heavy.

They do take some maintenance, and you will need parts. Saving by purchasing online really not pay off in the long run when you don't have a local dealer to help you get parts/repairs.

In the long run, I think your money would be much better spend purchasing a really good pedal bike. Get one that fits you, it's not just about tire size. You'll have just as much fun, you'll get some great exercise, and probably make some awesome friends along the way.

I'm not affiliated with Prodeco in any way, btw - just trying to find ways to not pollute the world.


Edited by RNewcomb (07/16/14 01:58 PM)

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#270870 - 07/16/14 04:01 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Tjin]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Heavy, cost more, more maintenance. In a world were people have a lack of exercise; just pedal. Cheaper and burning fat still beats using power.

I think electric assist bikes can be good solutions for a number of different situations: for those who have either long or very hilly commutes; people with health limitations (e.g., knee issues); people using cargo bikes. The example I linked to above is also an interesting case, where it allows using a fat bike (5" tires) as a commuter (which, I think, would be awesome in the winter).

Regarding cost, around here a kit costs about the same as one year of transit fare, depending on the one you get. So I think it could be a very good investment for someone who would like to commute by bike but who need that extra assistance to make the daily trip effectively.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#270874 - 07/16/14 09:08 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: LCranston]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
I'm actually looking at regular adult kick scooters (Xootr Street, Go-Ped Know-Ped, etc) as they look like they won't aggravate my knees and pack down very small. I just need to find a place in San Diego that rents them before I commit to buying one.
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Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#271241 - 08/14/14 09:43 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
...or a folding bike

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#271638 - 09/11/14 08:31 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Just ran across this, which may be of interest to those folks thinking about bikes as an alternative in large scale disasters. Portland OR is a very bike friendly city. For the last three years Portland has had a bike event called "Disaster Relief Trials".
Quote:
The Idea behind the inaugural Disaster Relief trials was twofold; to showcase the impressive capabilities of cargo bicycles/trailers and show the real-world disaster capabilities of bicycles in general. The scenario centered, then as now, around a hypothetical 30 mile round trip supply run on day 4 after a Cascadia Subduction Zone earthquake. This is around the time that the shift from response to recovery would likely have begun, and supplies would be arriving in earnest. In what has become the core components of DRT’s nationwide, each rider was tasked with collecting equipment and supplies at multiple destinations, with 100lbs collected per rider over the course. Riders were required to choose their routes to the checkpoints and pickup locations, lash and secure outsize cargo, navigate mandatory obstacles, self-repair, and arrive with all their designated cargo. In the end, all 30 riders split in two classes completed the course, and 3000lbs of cargo was assembled at the start/finish.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#271639 - 09/11/14 09:59 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: AKSAR]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
For the last three years Portland has had a bike event called "Disaster Relief Trials".


Hey, that looks like fun! I like the video. I wish they'd compare the different cargo bike designs.

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#271640 - 09/11/14 10:35 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Fascinating! Were the riders self contained with respect to their consumed water? Were there any normal (not purpose built cargo bikes) participating?

I will tour with about 40-50 lbs of gear (varies with water and food loading)and I can knock out 70-80 miles regularly - but that is in a functioning society, with milk shakes, etc. readily available.....
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#271641 - 09/12/14 12:00 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Fascinating! Were the riders self contained with respect to their consumed water? Were there any normal (not purpose built cargo bikes) participating?
I don't know anymore about it than what was on the web links. Given that they had to carry 100 lbs of assorted stuff, I suspect that cargo bikes would have a big advantage. It does suggest, however, that experienced (but non messenger) riders such as yourself, using normal touring type gear, could be still be very useful in a disaster scenario. The website does indicate that similar events have been held in other cities, such as Seattle. Perhaps you should look into organizing one in your town? You could include a "touring class".

I did find another link with a lot of photos of the 2013 event. Apparently one guy entered (and finished) with a cargo skateboard!
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#271642 - 09/12/14 02:49 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Even a conventional bike could be useful -just load it up and start pushing. The North Vietnamese demonstrated that....
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#271674 - 09/16/14 10:43 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
That looks like a really cool event...I would love to take part in something like that! Unfortunately I haven't heard about any around here. I don't have a cargo bike, but I have a good touring bike and it wouldn't be hard to attach a trailer for extra capacity.
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#271677 - 09/17/14 02:59 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
while visiting a friend's shop the other day, I noticed that he still had a couple of his now adult son's BMX bicycles that are at least 15 years old... rather than a folding bike, what about a seat post extension, and handle bar gooseneck extension to allow one of these short bikes to be ridden in a traditional upright fashion.... with the handlebars stored parallel to the frame, it would not take up much room.. most are very high quality and lightweight.. most of the kids in the BMX competition go through several size upgrades during their careers...

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#271683 - 09/18/14 12:11 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
I didn't realize cargo bikes cost thousands of dollars. Is this normal, or have I just stumbled upon a site for a particular sort of consumer?

http://www.metrofiets.com

There's gotta be a cheap version. Plenty of people use bicycle to transport stuff in less wealthy countries without paying thousands in USD. How do they do it?

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#271685 - 09/18/14 12:24 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I am not in the market,but I am sure there are cheaper versions , especially if one is handy with a torch.
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Geezer in Chief

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#271686 - 09/18/14 12:34 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Bingley]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Part of the extra cost is because they put the cargo between the rider and the front forks. They have to have a complex mechanism to be able to steer the front wheel.

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#271687 - 09/18/14 01:18 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Bingley]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Hmm, I'm not convinced the weight forward designs are all that good. I prefer to have weight over the rear wheel. Check out the Surly Bikes Big Dummy .

But rather than a dedicated cargo bike, I'd much rather have an excellent road bike that can carry cargo -- something like the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

My 20-something year old mountain bike was built the old fashioned way, Cro-Moly steel with lots of braze ons. I've had a rack over the rear wheel and a small pack on the handlebars. Nothing that upsets the balance. It could easily take a set of panniers to carry more stuff. If I needed to carry more than that I'd start looking at trailers...

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#271688 - 09/18/14 02:19 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Bingley]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Bingley
I didn't realize cargo bikes cost thousands of dollars. Is this normal, or have I just stumbled upon a site for a particular sort of consumer?
See an overview of cargo bikes and an review of some cargo bikes.

There appears to be lots of different designs for different purposes and different preferences. How much weight do you want to carry? Bulky and odd shaped stuff or small and compact loads. Will you ride big hills or mostly flatland?
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#271693 - 09/18/14 02:51 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I have been riding a Surly LHT for several years and I am very pleased with it - very versatile and useful. I'll bet their other models are pretty good, as well.

In a pinch, almost any bike will work, especially if you keep the tires inflated. (You read it first here on ETS.)
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Geezer in Chief

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#271700 - 09/19/14 12:51 AM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Russ]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Russ
Hmm, I'm not convinced the weight forward designs are all that good. I prefer to have weight over the rear wheel. Check out the Surly Bikes Big Dummy .

But rather than a dedicated cargo bike, I'd much rather have an excellent road bike that can carry cargo -- something like the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

My 20-something year old mountain bike was built the old fashioned way, Cro-Moly steel with lots of braze ons. I've had a rack over the rear wheel and a small pack on the handlebars. Nothing that upsets the balance. It could easily take a set of panniers to carry more stuff. If I needed to carry more than that I'd start looking at trailers...


+1 on the Surly LHT...excellent bike. I managed to find a used one on Craigslist this spring that was my size and it is now my all-purpose bike (aside from trails, I have an old mountain bike for those rides). So far the biggest loads I have had on it have been 30 pounds of groceries...rides nicely with the weight and could handle much more, especially if I installed a front rack in addition to the one on the rear. Also can take fairly fat tires, even with fenders, so you're not limited to skinny tires and perfect roads. I haven't ridden any of Surly's other models but they all look good. There are a few (Troll/Ogre/ECR) that look like they would make good off-road touring/camping rigs. As far as cargo bikes go, there's a company called Xtracycle that makes a kit you can use to convert a regular bike (like, say, that old steel MTB) into a longtail cargo bike. Check it out...http://www.xtracycle.com/freeradical-x1. Much less expensive than buying a ready-made cargo bike.


Edited by Jolt (09/19/14 12:55 AM)
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#300414 - 11/26/21 03:33 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
LCranston Offline
2
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 201
Loc: Nebraska
Was searching for Christmas presents for 12 yr old and came across an interesting twist- Electric Skateboards..

Lithium Battery Skateboards with a range estimate of 11-12 miles started at under 200.00..
As a get home vehicle, Small, portable, 11 miles at 20 Mph without any kicking, probably more if you have downhill stretches, and functional as a regular skateboard when the battery dies.

Thoughts, comments?

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#300419 - 11/26/21 05:24 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: LCranston]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: LCranston
Was searching for Christmas presents for 12 yr old and came across an interesting twist- Electric Skateboards..

Lithium Battery Skateboards with a range estimate of 11-12 miles started at under 200.00..
As a get home vehicle, Small, portable, 11 miles at 20 Mph without any kicking, probably more if you have downhill stretches, and functional as a regular skateboard when the battery dies.

Thoughts, comments?


European here. One of the organisations that tested a stack of those, failed all of them due to their unsafe batteries.

Also skateboards need a decent surface.
_________________________


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#300420 - 11/26/21 11:10 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Ren Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 522
Loc: Wales, UK
Probably better with an electric scooter. Actually see tradesmen using them in places like London. Where they have trouble parking their van near the client, so use a scooter to travel back and for the van.


Edited by Ren (11/27/21 12:05 AM)

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#300441 - 11/29/21 05:08 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Jolt]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Jolt
Originally Posted By: Russ
Hmm, I'm not convinced the weight forward designs are all that good. I prefer to have weight over the rear wheel. Check out the Surly Bikes Big Dummy .

But rather than a dedicated cargo bike, I'd much rather have an excellent road bike that can carry cargo -- something like the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

My 20-something year old mountain bike was built the old fashioned way, Cro-Moly steel with lots of braze ons. I've had a rack over the rear wheel and a small pack on the handlebars. Nothing that upsets the balance. It could easily take a set of panniers to carry more stuff. If I needed to carry more than that I'd start looking at trailers...


+1 on the Surly LHT...excellent bike. I managed to find a used one on Craigslist this spring that was my size and it is now my all-purpose bike (aside from trails, I have an old mountain bike for those rides). So far the biggest loads I have had on it have been 30 pounds of groceries...rides nicely with the weight and could handle much more, especially if I installed a front rack in addition to the one on the rear. Also can take fairly fat tires, even with fenders, so you're not limited to skinny tires and perfect roads. I haven't ridden any of Surly's other models but they all look good. There are a few (Troll/Ogre/ECR) that look like they would make good off-road touring/camping rigs. As far as cargo bikes go, there's a company called Xtracycle that makes a kit you can use to convert a regular bike (like, say, that old steel MTB) into a longtail cargo bike. Check it out...http://www.xtracycle.com/freeradical-x1. Much less expensive than buying a ready-made cargo bike.



I'm a big fan of Surly. One of these days, I may even get around to building up the 1x1 frame and fork set that's been collecting dust in my house for about 15 years.


Edited by amper (11/29/21 05:26 PM)
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300442 - 11/29/21 05:15 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: boatman]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: chickenlittle
Does anybody rollerskate?
I knew a girl who said she could average more than 10 miles an hour and skate over a whole day on any paved road.
It sounds a bit extreme to me because that would be 80 miles in 8 hours.


This was me in my early 20's. I don't skate anymore, because in 2013, I had a catastrophic street crash in Seattle that left me with a permanent disability, so getting on skates at this point is a very bad idea.

Originally Posted By: boatman
Chickenlittle,I do not think rollerskates are very practical.One con not carry much of a load and maintain balance.If you have to go overland (leave sidewalk/pavement) you will be walking.A bicycle can go either.In a disaster there may be rubble that will bring a skater to a complete and sudden stop.A pebble is all it takes and its ROADRASH city.

BOATMAN
John


In my aforementioned early 20s, I lived in Center City Philadelphia and skated everywhere with a backpack that most people would considered a suitable size for a "bug out bag" or "get home bag". IN all that time, I only ever had two falls, and only one of them resulted in any injury, at all, a small patch of torn skin under my jeans. The jeans themselves didn't even rip.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300443 - 11/29/21 05:19 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Greg_Sackett]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Greg_Sackett
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.


No kidding! Just yesterday I got an offer from Fenix for a bike light that would turbo to 1500 lumens! It was over $100 but that is still impressive output.


As of this past September, I use a Fenix PD36 TAC on a Fenix ALB-10 handlebar mount as my bicycle headlamp. It has a maximum output of 3000 lumens (really about 750 for any significant period of time), but more importantly, it will run for over 10 hours at 350 lumens or over 18 hours at 150 lumens.

Those are the two settings I use when riding at night. 150 lumens for most riding (also as daytime running light), and 350 lumens if I am on a fast downhill.

My bike is a 1990s era Trek 820 I got at my local charity shop for $25 a few years ago, with a milk crate zip-tied to a rear rack.


Edited by amper (11/29/21 05:25 PM)
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300444 - 11/29/21 05:20 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: LesSnyder]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
I think the 500w hub motored electric bikes have the same caveats as the under 50cc gasoline powered ones in that they do not need a license tag... a wide variety and price on the hub motors and controllers between Chinese and German, some regenerative brake...like the rest of the electric vehicle world.... depends upon the batteries... when lithium iron phosphate or newer technology becomes affordable, probably more interest in the 36v or higher systems... we need to make friends with Chile, Bolivia, and anyone else that mines lithium...


In most states, e-bikes are limited to 750 w motors and 28 mph operation, and generally *must* have operable pedals. Anything more than that, and it's legally considered a motorcycle.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300445 - 11/29/21 05:24 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: RNewcomb]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: RNewcomb


What I don't like:

The batteries wear out. If the battery is proprietary, and it probably is, and the company goes out of business, as a lot of them will, your really stuck with a VERY heavy bike.


Most e-bikes use battery packs made up of 18650 or 21700 cylindrical lithium-ion cells, and the packs can be rebuilt. Those cells aren't going away any time soon, since they are also commonly used in many other devices, most notably Tesla automobiles and household battery banks. Tesla has announced they will be moving to 46800 cells in the future, and there's no reason those can't be used on e-bikes, as well.
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300446 - 11/29/21 05:27 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: amper]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
Originally Posted By: amper
Originally Posted By: Greg_Sackett
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.


No kidding! Just yesterday I got an offer from Fenix for a bike light that would turbo to 1500 lumens! It was over $100 but that is still impressive output.


As of this past September, I use a Fenix PD36 TAC on a Fenix ALB-10 handlebar mount as my bicycle headlamp. It has a maximum output of 3000 lumens (really about 750 for any significant period of time), but more importantly, it will run for over 10 hours at 350 lumens or over 18 hours at 150 lumens.

Those are the two settings I use when riding at night. 150 lumens for most riding (also as daytime running light), and 350 lumens if I am on a fast downhill.

My bike is a 1990s era Trek 820 I got at my local charity shop for $25 a few years ago, with a milk crate zip-tied to a rear rack.


Don't use those lights in traffic, you basically blinding everybody facing you.

Get specific lights that have a cut off point, so you don't blind others.
_________________________


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#300454 - 11/29/21 06:44 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Tjin]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Originally Posted By: amper
Originally Posted By: Greg_Sackett
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Update - lights are getting brighter and cheaper every year -- and sometimes USB rechargeable. Update your lights if they are more than a few years old.


No kidding! Just yesterday I got an offer from Fenix for a bike light that would turbo to 1500 lumens! It was over $100 but that is still impressive output.


As of this past September, I use a Fenix PD36 TAC on a Fenix ALB-10 handlebar mount as my bicycle headlamp. It has a maximum output of 3000 lumens (really about 750 for any significant period of time), but more importantly, it will run for over 10 hours at 350 lumens or over 18 hours at 150 lumens.

Those are the two settings I use when riding at night. 150 lumens for most riding (also as daytime running light), and 350 lumens if I am on a fast downhill.

My bike is a 1990s era Trek 820 I got at my local charity shop for $25 a few years ago, with a milk crate zip-tied to a rear rack.


Don't use those lights in traffic, you basically blinding everybody facing you.

Get specific lights that have a cut off point, so you don't blind others.


My light is no more blinding to others than a car's headlamps. In fact, my light is far *less* bright than automotive headlamps.

https://www.nadaguides.com/Cars/Shopping-Guides/how-many-lumens-is-a-car-headlight


Edited by amper (11/29/21 06:46 PM)
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Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300459 - 11/30/21 12:13 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1821
It's not about lumens. Its the beam pattern and lux.

It's the same as a high or low beam on a car. A regular flashlight is equal to a high beam. A proper bike light has a cut of to act like a low beam.

Put the bike in front of your car with the light on and sit in the car to see what the effect is.

The Germans even made a law regarding bike light needing to be a low beam; the StVZO standard. It's just the Germans that made it in to a law, but it doesn't beam blinding people else where is good.

Random google hit on StVZO: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/stvzo-bike-lights/

A regular flashlight beam battern is however fine for mountain biking; as you don't have other traffic and allows you to see branches. Although i would recommend to have a headlight and handle bar mounted one, so you can see in to the corners.
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#300467 - 11/30/21 07:09 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: Tjin]
amper Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 228
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Tjin
It's not about lumens. Its the beam pattern and lux.

It's the same as a high or low beam on a car. A regular flashlight is equal to a high beam. A proper bike light has a cut of to act like a low beam.

Put the bike in front of your car with the light on and sit in the car to see what the effect is.

The Germans even made a law regarding bike light needing to be a low beam; the StVZO standard. It's just the Germans that made it in to a law, but it doesn't beam blinding people else where is good.

Random google hit on StVZO: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/stvzo-bike-lights/

A regular flashlight beam battern is however fine for mountain biking; as you don't have other traffic and allows you to see branches. Although i would recommend to have a headlight and handle bar mounted one, so you can see in to the corners.


Looking at the photographs on that site, they don't bear any resemblance whatsoever to the amount of light coming out of my flashlight on the 150 lumen or 350 lumen settings, which is all that I use, and again, I will note that even the higher of those two modes is still half the lumens of an average automotive halogen lamp. The Lupine SL AX in that article is a 2200 lumen light, about 15 times the output of what I typically use. its low beam setting is 1300 lumens, and its daytime running light is 180 lumens, brighter than what I typically use at night.

My flashlight it pointed at the ground no more than 3 metres in front of my tire. In no way does it illuminate to the distances shown in those photographs. And for the record, I went to university for Lighting Design. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing. Thanks for the advice.

Also, one other thing. I was pretty impressed with the Nitecore BR25, which has a hood over the front that directs light downward to illuminate the bicycle itself and the ground immediately below it to make one more visible. I think this is an interesting idea, but the performance of the unit itself is not as good as my Fenix PD36 TAC. So, one of the things I'm looking at is fabricating a removable reflector hood out of black ABS and white PVC pipe fittings for my PD36 TAC do do more or less what the Nitecore BR25's non-removable hood does.


Edited by amper (11/30/21 07:19 PM)
_________________________
Gemma Seymour (she/her) @gcvrsa

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#300475 - 12/01/21 01:36 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: amper]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I am happy to say that more and more cyclists are visible with current lights in use. I have never been close to being "blinded." when commuting regularly on a bike, I always adjusted me light to illuminate the ground in front of me, rather than striving for distance.
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Geezer in Chief

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#300485 - 12/02/21 05:46 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: hikermor]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I am happy to say that more and more cyclists are visible with current lights in use. I have never been close to being "blinded." when commuting regularly on a bike, I always adjusted me light to illuminate the ground in front of me, rather than striving for distance.

Only thing I don't care for is the blinking lights. A light says "see me, I'm here" and blinking light says "I'm in distress, or I need help, or I'm signaling something"

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#300486 - 12/02/21 06:21 PM Re: Bikes, scooters, etc - alt. forms of transpiration [Re: TeacherRO]
Herman30 Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 495
Loc: Finland
I use a Fenix headlamp when riding my bicycle. Like amper I have my light tilted down to light about 3 meters infront of the front wheel. I use 150-200 lumens. I ride in mostly well lit up city area so no need for far reaching light, it´s enough to light up 2-3 meters in front of me. Haven´t noticed anyone being blinded by my light and looking at my reflection in windows I don´t find my light disturbing to the eye. .

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