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#268631 - 03/27/14 01:50 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: Mark_F]
hikermor Offline
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Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Do you have a copy of Cathy Hufault's " Death Clouds on Mt Baldy"? Published in 2011, it is an accurate, well researched account of this tragedy, the search, and the aftermath. I especially like the picture of an impossibly young Hikermor (p. 161), about to receive a lesson in SAR and in mountain survival.

I think you are correct to use real life situations.
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#268632 - 03/27/14 02:07 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: Mark_F]
gonewiththewind Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
I do have it. I will look for the photo, lol.

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#268633 - 03/27/14 02:37 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: gonewiththewind]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Montanero
I do provide these types of incentives, but always useful gear or a learning tool.


yes, that is the idea, start them with some basics, and add items or better quality items as they go, I am hoping this will spark their interest enough that they might take some initiative and add items of their own and show them to everyone at a meeting or outdoor activity with an explanation of why they included the item(s).

Originally Posted By: Montanero
As I have known many of my scouts since they were born (I am referred to more often as "Uncle" than anything else), I give them these types of birthday and Christmas presents as well.


A small and tight knit group always seems to be the rule in scouting. The pack we came from was very much like that, and so is our troop. Our scouts (and adults) got a mini fire tinder kit for christmas: chunk of fatwood, some jute twine, and some char cloth, fun project for DS and I and all the scouts got something out of it too, I hope with the merit badge activities I can also show them WHY those items make key fire starting tinder.

Originally Posted By: Montanero
Acknowledge and reward good behavior, strong effort, and successful work.


Wow, this could get expensive lol. Could I substitute some inexpensive rewards instead? When I read this I had an idea pop in my head about handing out some sort of awards or certificates, such as a firebug award for the first one to successfully make his three fires, or maybe a water bug award for the three water purification methods (methinks I am already leaning towards a bug oriented theme with this wink ). Would I rather give each scout who successfully does it a fire steel or water bag with purification tablets for completing these requirements? Sure I would, but neither I nor the troop can afford something like that for 8 or more scouts.

Originally Posted By: Montanero
Do not reward unsuccessful work, but spend the time with that scout to make them successful. Be honest about failure, but show them in detail why it failed and how to do it better.


This part is very difficult, especially for me as I have OCD and some impulse control issues. Add to that the fact that myself and the other dad's all recently left cub scouts where we were used to being more hands in, so to speak. It is hard to just step back and let them fail. I had this problem with a recent fire starting session with DS at the fireplace, he had successfuly used his firesteel to get an ember started in his char cloth, but he was having difficulty getting the ember to catch his jute twine. Instead of letting him keep trying my OCD and impulse control took over and I took it from him and showed him how to get it started. In hindsight I realized what I had done, and apologized to him for taking over, and I am determined not to let that happen again.

Originally Posted By: Montanero
In many cases, just showing the honesty of addressing failure, and the care to make them successful will win over the scout, without any reward.


Yes, I have seen this already, although I have also seen the early signs of teenage brooding, ugh.

Originally Posted By: Montanero
I have had some scout complain to me that I spend too much time with the less successful scouts, and I just respond to them that they should be spending the time with them as well. The troop succeeds or fails as a troop, and it is in all of their best interests to make everyone successful.


I think it is difficult for the boys at this age to understand that, as they are becoming REALLY competitive with one another, I assume this has something to do with establishing the pecking order and the "I'm better than you are" complex that teenagers seem to have (I never understood that). But, as leaders, it is up to us to teach them.

Originally Posted By: Montanero
Some parents are actually more difficult to manage with this though.


Amen to that wink
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#268634 - 03/27/14 02:53 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: bacpacjac]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
some good ideas there BPJ. As for the ponchos, here is what the requirement actually says:

"Improvise a natural shelter. For the purpose of this demonstration, use techniques that have little negative impact on the environment. Spend a night in your shelter."

Now, as I read this and interpret it, to me it states the shelter must be natural, i.e. no emergency blankets or tarps or cordage or what have you. But it is not clear what gear the scout can (or cannot) have.

Obviously safety is a major concern, so I am thinking light, whistle, and water bottle at a minimum. It doesn't say they can have their ten essentials, but it doesn't say they can't either. So my interpretation of this is that they CAN have at least some gear with them, BUT they cannot use any of it in their shelter construction (they could, however, WEAR their rain gear if it happens to rain). Anyone else read this requirement differently?
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#268635 - 03/27/14 02:56 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: hikermor]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
hikermor, that story ties right in with one of the other important BSA principals about Wilderness Survival. I LOVE this quote from the merit badge pamphlet:

The best emergency is the one that never happens.
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#268636 - 03/27/14 03:11 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: bacpacjac]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
The power of play! LOL! Let's hope he used it up by using it somewhat like how you were envisioning, only without the drama of a real life emergency.


I sure hope so BPJ

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac
There's real value, IMO, in letting them use the gear in their survival kits, or at least duplicates or similar items, in guided or freestyle survival skills practice. (Just be diligent about checking and restocking, which is easier said than done, I know.) Because they likely don't have real world survival experience, and are probably limited in their wilderness survival experience, their ability to improvise and adapt may be limited as well. Not to mention that there's a real difference between theory and reality sometimes.


Yes, that is my ultimate goal I think BPJ, I first have to sell the rest of the troop leaders that this is a very important thing for the boys, and not just another merit badge. Then I can ask for money to purchase enough items to have 1 kit for each boy to sock away for emergencies, with enough extra identical gear for them to practice with. It is also why I want to talk them into doing frequent survival camp outs, where the boys must use only their kits, or only limited gear, to make camp and address their survival priorities. Practicing in this way will help bridge the gap between the theory and reality.

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac

Example - my son understands how to build a super shelter and he carries all the materials in his survival kit, I gave him duplicates of everything in his kit and we practiced building one a few weeks ago. He was really challenged. It took more time than he expected, wasn't as simple as it looks, the materials were sometimes fragile (think ripped plastic sheeting caused by overzealous knot tying and underzealous pole placement), his arms weren't long enough, he wasn't coordinated enough, a bitterly cold wind froze his fingers and made it hard to work, etc...


Perhaps a valuable lesson in keeping things as simple as possible? I've tried to do that with DS, that's why our medium size kit emergency shelter is a combination of an AMK emergency heatsheet bivvy and heatsheet blanket.

Originally Posted By: bacpacjac

He got really frustrated sometimes. We were just in the backyard, and I was there to help, but it made me think about how much more difficult it would have been for him had he been on his own and in a survival situation. We've made some key adjustments to his kit as a result, BTW.

Seems like a good time for a PSA: Watching my son struggle to combine theory + his kit + a real world application reminded me that it's a good idea to take our gear out and test it, and ourselves, regularly. Trial and error has been my best teacher, but I'd rather work through some of those errors in advance of when TSHTF. wink


good advice indeed BPJ, glad I am in such good company here at ETS
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#268637 - 03/27/14 03:15 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: gonewiththewind]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
Montanero, I have been trying to collect articles such as that, but all the ones I find are from not immediately apparent reliable sources, or they sound cheesy and contrived (maybe it's the writing). is there anyway I could ask you for copies via links or as attachments in an e-mail?
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#268638 - 03/27/14 03:42 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: Mark_F]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Mark, We had a thread a little while back on just that subject. But I can send you whatever I have. I browse through news on the web very frequently, but the tips I have received from this forum have proven the most valuable in finding these stories. It is a primary concern for this forum, and there are people spread all around North America, some in Europe and now even in Asia.

That is something to encourage with all members here, please post links to stories of survival or emergency situations. These are valuable for all of us. And the knowledge you share here benefits more than just those who look here.

Mark, everyone has that same problem, knowing when and how to step back and not try to fix a problem. No matter the age, gender, or psychological tendencies. Especially as a parent and it is your child having the problem. You are not having more difficulty than any of the rest of us in that regard.

Adolescents are generally idiocentric, they view everything through the lens of how it affects them, and social status is very salient at that age. Boys are also naturally competitive in these types of skills, where girls are more likely to work socially and cooperate. It can be useful as a motivator, but you can't let it get out of control. If it turns to demeaning, hindering, or harming others it has gone too far. The scout law, oath, and other parts of scouting can be used to moderate the competitiveness, along with the idea of teamwork and building an identity as part of the troop. The troop succeeds or fails together, and it is in best interests of all to help the other members of the troop. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses, use their strengths to work on the weaknesses of others, and even their own. Identify the strengths and weaknesses of each individual, and task organize accordingly. If you have one that is very good at knots, and very interested, have him teach the ones that are weak at it. if we have a competition at a camporee, I build the teams according to strengths. If we have a troop camp out, I encourage responsibilities to be given according to weaknesses. The best ways to learn are to have responsibility or to teach something. So those that are weak at a particular skill or trait get that responsibility or they have to teach it.

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#268641 - 03/27/14 04:19 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: Mark_F]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Mark_Frantom
some good ideas there BPJ. As for the ponchos, here is what the requirement actually says:

"Improvise a natural shelter. For the purpose of this demonstration, use techniques that have little negative impact on the environment. Spend a night in your shelter."



So,could one just find a rock shelter, make minor adjustments, and meet this requirement? I ask, because easily my best nights have been spent in natural shelters (better than even any nights in tents).
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#268643 - 03/27/14 05:00 PM Re: tips to teach wilderness survival merit badge [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
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Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Montanero, here is a source I check regularly, often finding accounts that are factual and at least relatively unbiased:

http://www.nps.gov/morningreport/
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