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#267206 - 02/07/14 06:54 AM New sat option
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

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#267210 - 02/07/14 01:45 PM Re: New sat option [Re: JohnN]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Looks interesting. Good capabilities for normal coms, unlike the inReach. I wonder how affordable it will be. The real cost will be the amount of time using the sat connection. The other such satellite devices were very expensive per minute.

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#267215 - 02/07/14 06:30 PM Re: New sat option [Re: JohnN]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
It interests me because you BYOD (bring your own device), you no longer have to purchase a sat handset with an uncertain ability to connect them to networks. I have laptops and smartphones loaded with necessary software for me to do my Red Cross business after a disaster - presumably these will connect to this sat hotspot. I'd be interested in the sustaining or subscription cost to keep one of these satellite hotspots hot, month to month - how much to maintain an account in terms of monthly fees that I can switch on when the wireless nets and wifis we largely depend on go down. Expense per minute of use can be justified after a disaster :-|

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#267217 - 02/07/14 07:39 PM Re: New sat option [Re: Lono]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Yes, this is a very interesting option. If the cost of the unit and message costs are reasonable it could have lots of applications for SAR work. I can see it being very useful when setting up an Incident Command Post at an isolated trailhead, for example.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#267221 - 02/08/14 09:20 PM Re: New sat option [Re: JohnN]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Interesting Device.

From what I have read data speeds are slow (2.4Kbps). which is slightly better than dialup. I would not expect a fluid response with bandwidth thirsty apps like netflix, youtube, facebook, etc.... (I wouldn't expect such apps to be usable on such a slow connection)

Although data speeds are reportedly to increase (1.5Mbps) when Iridium "Next" rolls out in 2015 (according to Iridium). 1.5Mbps is still significantly slower than broadband connections of ten years ago but could pass as acceptable in a wilderness setting.

Additionally, this device brings along the caveats for any powered device operating in the wilderness - energy. How much energy to bring along (extra batteries) and can any energy be transferred in the field? (More batteries and adapter cables to bring along)

In the moment of need I prefer to turn my handset on and make a call. A connection between GO and the smartphone is required and fumbling around with a smartphone menu and wifi connections is not something that will decrease the time of initial communications. That could be a problem if you are depending on a non-techie person in your group to get the devices to "talk" to each other (and you are the one in need of help).

Depending on one device working rather than two seems to me a better bet. I see this device and others like it terrific for casual communications.

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#267223 - 02/08/14 10:47 PM Re: New sat option [Re: ChicagoCraig]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: QuietStove
From what I have read data speeds are slow (2.4Kbps). which is slightly better than dialup. I would not expect a fluid response with bandwidth thirsty apps like netflix, youtube, facebook, etc.... (I wouldn't expect such apps to be usable on such a slow connection)

Although data speeds are reportedly to increase (1.5Mbps) when Iridium "Next" rolls out in 2015 (according to Iridium). 1.5Mbps is still significantly slower than broadband connections of ten years ago but could pass as acceptable in a wilderness setting.

Thanks for the info on data speed! Where did you find that information? I looked but was unable to find anything about speeds.

Originally Posted By: QuietStove
..... How much energy to bring along (extra batteries) and can any energy be transferred in the field? (More batteries and adapter cables to bring along)

In the moment of need I prefer to turn my handset on and make a call. A connection between GO and the smartphone is required and fumbling around with a smartphone menu and wifi connections is not something that will decrease the time of initial communications. That could be a problem if you are depending on a non-techie person in your group to get the devices to "talk" to each other (and you are the one in need of help).

Depending on one device working rather than two seems to me a better bet. I see this device and others like it terrific for casual communications.

I don't see this as a replacement for PLB, SPOT, Sat Phone, etc. However it could be useful for more than just "casual communications". My interest if rather for quickly setting up an Incident Command Post at a remote trailhead, for SAR operations.

The initial response for a typical SAR search mission might involve an Incident Commander sitting in a pick up at a trailhead, and perhaps 3-5 Strike Teams out in the field. The IC will be talking to the STs via hand held VHF radios. While the STs are deploying, back in town others are gathering more information about the subject. A persistent problem in these kinds of missions is the lack of cell coverage at the trailhead. The IC needs to be able to communicate with the folks in town.

Having even a relatively modest speed data connection would be extremely valuable. The in-town folks can transmit more info on the subject as it becomes available (a recent photo of the subject, or the latest weather forcasts for example). The IC at the trailhead can send back photos of clues discovered (for example "...This is a photo of a jacket we found on the trail, ask the subjects wife is this is his?...") The IC can also be checking the availability of more resources, etc.

If the mission grows in size and complexity, the IC will get additional help (perhaps an Ops Section Chief, a Planning Section Chief, and a Staging Area Manager) so the ability to link several smart phones or tablets would be extremely useful. Even 2.4Kbps would be useful, and 1.5Mbps would very helpful.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#267226 - 02/09/14 12:30 AM Re: New sat option [Re: AKSAR]
ChicagoCraig Offline
Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 113
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: QuietStove
From what I have read data speeds are slow (2.4Kbps). which is slightly better than dialup. I would not expect a fluid response with bandwidth thirsty apps like netflix, youtube, facebook, etc.... (I wouldn't expect such apps to be usable on such a slow connection)

Although data speeds are reportedly to increase (1.5Mbps) when Iridium "Next" rolls out in 2015 (according to Iridium). 1.5Mbps is still significantly slower than broadband connections of ten years ago but could pass as acceptable in a wilderness setting.


Thanks for the info on data speed! Where did you find that information? I looked but was unable to find anything about speeds.



http://www.gizmag.com/iridium-go-satellite-hotspot/30711/

Take note of the "up to" disclaimer. Signal strength will have to be 100% (5 bars) to attain 2.4Kbps, 4 bars drops it to 50%, 3 bars to 10%, 2 bars or less will be very slow or not useable.

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#267228 - 02/09/14 01:36 AM Re: New sat option [Re: JohnN]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
2.4Kb/s is very slow for dialup -- dialup peaked at 56Kb/s in the late 90s. Voice uses 64Kb/s without compression. The most common compressed codec (G.729) uses 8Kb/s. If the smartphone app that comes with this device uses VoIP the voice quality may end up being quite poor.

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#267229 - 02/09/14 01:41 AM Re: New sat option [Re: JohnN]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
2.4kbs is not what I would call modest, but more like excruciatingly painful slow. Think back in the days of monochrome monitors and text only email. And that's about all you are going to be able to do at that speed. I'm thinking no Flash, no high resolution images, and video is totally out the window.

I'm thinking its going to attach to one Andriod or one IOS device that is utilizing an app that throttles all the demands to a usable level and makes sure you don't use your data allotment on a couple of unexpected app updates. Expectations of connecting 4 or 5 devices at that speed are just silly.

Satellite data rates have always been high priced and limited data, so don't think you are going to get anything near what your cellular carrier is offering.

I'm very interested in how this is going to work in the real world, but I am not going to be one of the early adopters.

Globalstar also has a competing device they call the Sat-Fi. Iridium looks like they are going to get their device to market first. Globalstar potentially may have a speed advantage as their satellite constellation is newer because of the amplifier issue they had a couple of years ago necessitating a forced upgrade.

I'll keep an eye out for the consumer use reviews.

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#267230 - 02/09/14 03:59 AM Re: New sat option [Re: celler]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: celler
Satellite data rates have always been high priced and limited data, so don't think you are going to get anything near what your cellular carrier is offering.
......................
Globalstar also has a competing device they call the Sat-Fi. Iridium looks like they are going to get their device to market first. Globalstar potentially may have a speed advantage as their satellite constellation is newer because of the amplifier issue they had a couple of years ago necessitating a forced upgrade.
We'll, the applications I have in mind are for locations that have no cell coverage, so something is better than nothing. Sounds like the higher data rates after 2015 might be more workable however.

Regarding Globalstar,, it has a very poor reputation in Alaska, at least for voice coms. Apparently Globalstar's satellites are optimized for mid latitudes. Unless one has a very clear view to the south their sat phones don't work worth a sh_t in Alaska (though I am told they may add some satellites and this may improve somewhat in the future).
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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