In the wake of the southeast U.S. snowstorm (and some ice), the news out of Atlanta of widespread gridlock, people stranded overnight in cars, abandoning cars on the highways and walking miles home, taking shelter in churches, Home Depot.... harkens back to D.C.'s January 2011 "Carmageddon" which still reverberates in memories here whenever there is a weekday snow forecast.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/gridlock-continues-as-unspeakably-horrible-commute/nc53m/

Everyone, everywhere, ought to be prepared to spend a night in their car. Whether mechanical breakdown or weather-related, no one is immune from the threat. Though we've done car survival lists many times on ETS, anyone care to chime in on another?

How about a Top 10 Carmageddon List for those on a gridlocked highway? Things that would make a winter day and night in the car safer and more comfortable for those who aren't going to abandon their vehicles.

Weather Channel is reporting that it is currently 13 degrees in Atlanta (Wednesday morning). Here's my comfort list:

1) Sleeping bag (at least a fleece blanket - I keep a 20-degree bag in mine)
2) down booties (yes, I do - they pack small)
3) chemical hand warmers (rated for 8 hours)
4) down mittens
5) balaclava
6) Food (energy bars for me + three meals of dog food for my sidekick)
7) water
8) Kleenex packets (i.e. toilet paper)
9) long underwear
10) smartphone backup battery


Except for the sleeping bag, those items take little space -- all but the sleeping bag/blanket and water could be stuffed under car seats. They would make hours in a car with the engine off soooooo much more comfortable.

I'm leaving off the common-sense strategies when there is a winter storm forecast and you're about to get on the road: full tank of gas, winter attire (don't assume you'll always go without incident from your home garage to the office garage and vice versa).

Also leaving off this list the usual year-around car safety basics such as flashlight and flares or ETS standards like matches, knife, etc. Atlanta drivers aren't going to make a campfire on the freeway in a snowstorm.

As many lists as we've done on ETS, I still learn from them and they help ingrain good survival habits.

Some particular salient points from this article:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/gridlock-continues-as-unspeakably-horrible-commute/nc53m/


"...three to four school buses loaded with kids are stuck on I-285...."

"...Department of Natural Resources vehicles are going out in four-wheel-drive vehicles to deliver supplies like water and snacks to stranded motorists."

"...people had been out here for 18 hours and were complaining of being hungry and thirsty...."

"...Predawn temperatures range from 13 in Dunwoody and 14 in Cartersville, Alpharetta, Marietta and Chamblee to 16 at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport and 18 in Peachtree City."


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Good list, especially when you add in the other "standard items" to have in the car.

The only thing I would suggest is that things like the down booties, mittens, sleeping bag are one per person.

If you are traveling with family or a car pool (to or from work), you will need to think about dealing with the group. One thing the occurs to me is having a large down comforter or wool blanket. You could then cover everyone in the back seat, for example. Maybe some cheap $ store gloves and knit caps too. Something is always better than nothing.

If it is you who are riding in the car pool, you may have to make your own plans.

Great points, bws48.

Parents have a particular challenge in planning for their children.

Hadn't thought about carpooling, that is really a challenge -- good to start this conversation with fellow carpoolers in advance of a situation.

Those who use mass transit really have to be strategic. I had a very unpleasant experience shortly after moving to DC a long time ago (pre-Dopplar). I lived in northern Virginia and my daily commute to downtown DC entailed a Metro bus that travelled I-395 to the Pentagon, where I rode a subway train across (well, underneath) the river.

The weather forecast one January morning when I left for work called for cold temps (20s-30s) and a chance of some flurries. No big deal, so I dressed as I normally did on a cold day -- long wool coat, gloves, hat, scarf, wool pants and leather flats with trouser socks. Our offices were on the top floor of our building.

I looked outside mid-morning and it was more than flurries. I kept working though some others who normally arrived later had decided to stay home. Decided I'd go home after lunch. Looked out the window occasionally but didn't bother to look down at the street.

Took me six hours to get home and I walked part of the last two miles after the bus jackknifed and got stuck. I was considering curling up in a snowdrift when a woman stopped her car and offered a lift. Wherever she is, God bless her. That was the storm which caused the Metro authorities to install heaters on the electrified "third rails" which had become buried under snow and crippled the subway system.

The morning forecast of "flurries" gave way that day to the reality of 15" of snow.

It make a lasting impression upon me. I began preparing for the worst - starting with keeping boots at the office.


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+1 on Sleeping bag.

My timing belt broke last week. Spent 2 hours waiting AAA.
wrapped spare coat around legs, lit candle on dashboard, popped handwarmer.

Was about to break out sleeping bag at 2 hours, when Tow Truck arrived.

Found one odd gap-- my book read had plenty of power, but conflict between turning pages and keeping on gloves-
gloves were
A) too big
B) not conductive

think I might need to starting carrying a stylus for when I need to wear gloves..

I like the idea of a sleeping bag, but it does take up a lot of space in the vehicle. I love my Escape, but there's not a whole lot of space back there if you put in a sleeping bag.

I have two sets of those Adventure medical kits emergency blankets (Heat Sheets?), and although a sleeping bag would be much more comfortable to "sleep" on or in, from a warmth perspective, and being out of the wind, do you think that's adequate?

Here I am in San Diego but I can relate having worked at the Pentagon during a couple snow storms and glad the boss decided that everyone on his staff were "non-essential"; we all went home early. The boss lived in Annapolis and there was no way he was sticking around.

I don't know about Atlanta, but I just got off the phone with a friend in Alabama. Seriously bad there too. Skating rink slick and the snow that never sticks is sticking.

Having an office kit to cover the black swan weather events is a very good idea. Typical southern clothing won't work when the weather is that of Northern Canada. A duffel with wool base-layers (socks, long u/w, et al) is strongly encouraged.

You may have just solved my conundrum with my i-Phone. This week I've been wearing glove liners along with my glo-mitts (convertible mittens) and can't use my phone without taking off my gloves.

Will now look at Amazon for a stylus that works with an i-Phone.

Thanks!


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From what I've seen of Iowa's winter weather, think I'd be keeping a 0-degree or 20-degree bag in there - space be damned. I got a 20-degree bag on sale from LL Bean and it is pretty compact in its original bag -- fits in the Coleman stainless cooler I keep in the car (Honda Element). I have other things stuffed in that cooler around the bag, too (such as my energy bars, ice scraper, other smaller items)

I wonder if a Heatsheet would fit over a fleece sleeping bag liner (which unzipped is a nice blanket two could fit under). Those fleece bags can be rolled and squished pretty small (especially in a compression sack).


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REI has liner gloves which are conductive and work with the iPhone.
http://www.rei.com/search?search=liner+g...reen+compatible

A sleeping bag is essential. A decent bag occupies about one cubic foot of space, weighing perhaps three pounds, so I don't understand how one could not fit in any vehicle. I have always carried one, beginning with a 1962 VW Beetle. Two heet sheets will definitely not be adequate, although they will probably help you avoid amputations due to frostbite.

I would include a flameless cooker or MRE heaters. Might as well have a bit of luxury. For that matter, put some really nice items in your food stash - really, really nice chocolate bars, for instance.

Thanks, Russ. Don't think I'm going to give up my Smartwool liners for those though.

Just Googled and Apple has filed a patent on a stylus. Will probably cost $50 if they ever market it.

Doing more research on non-Apple solutions. Wasn't a big issue until the other morning when it was 9 degrees.


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That made me laugh out loud. Perhaps inappropriately, but it did.





I like the way you think, Hikermor.

Because my dog and I love bikejoring, winter is my favorite season here. Have gotten in the habit of packing two or three thermoses of boiling hot water along with cocoa packets so fellow bikejorers (and dogscooterers) can warm up from the inside on the trail.

When faced with a long winter drive it would be a good habit to have those thermoses, boiling water and cocoa (tea or coffee) along. Even after sitting overnight (in my kitchen) my smaller LL Bean thermoses are keeping water hot. Quite hot.

To augment my thermos inventory for group outings, this one is being delivered today:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U8D...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

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There are worse places to spend the night. People got creative with makeshift pillows. Think I'd opt for marshmallows....

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/01/29/c...ars-on-highway/


Commuters Sleep In Grocery Stores After Abandoning Cars On Highway

January 29, 2014 9:40 AM

"...Made it to CVS on W Paces Ferry. People sleeping in every aisle, using maxi pads as pillows."



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I'm still not fully into the smartphone tech;

I just noticed that the list includes a spare battery for the Smartphone. I wonder why?

The nice girl at the mall who set me up with my smartphone last year also gave me a charger that fits into the car cigarette lighter to charge the phone. The car battery will run the phone a long time and recharge the phone battery. I think that would solve the problem. Maybe make sure to have a car charger and cord in the car---I keep mine there.

This could also be shared with other folks phones in the car (if all the phone charging cords were standardized/compatible ---apparently some are not).

If you run out of gas or are conserving fuel, it would be good to have the backup charger.

I always have a Kindle in my purse so I'd pass time reading but would also like to have Internet access so keeping the smartphone going is very important.

I have a car charger (cell phone 101, I should think) and use it a lot because my phone "map apps" (Waze, IOS 7 and Google Map) have supplanted my Garmin gps and they are a significant battery drain.

I've also become dependent on my RadarScope app (real-time weather radar) and "Around Me" (gas stations, restaurants, hotels, etc.) and "i-Exit" apps and several others.

Not as critical as a sleeping bag but nice to have.


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Dagney- all the screens work the same- any $1.00 sytlus will work.

I like the ones with stylus on one end, pen on other- might as well increase usefulness

Good to know, thanks. I have an old Palm Pilot around here somewhere so will look for that stylus before buying one.


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does anyone have a link to, or actually tested the amount of interior temperature change a small kerosene lantern (1/2" wick, around 900 BTU/hr) can actually effect in conditions like those currently encountered?...I understand there are a lot of variables eg. interior volume, insulation,... just wondering on the temp change you can expect under actual conditions... normal safety warning

We've got highway closures all over the place this winter too. In fact, there's one North of me and one East of me as I type this response.

My top 10 must haves for a potential overnight in my Jeep during solo winter travel, aside from the standard vehicle & First Aid kit stuff are:

-extra sweater and/or coat (My old long heavy wool coat lives in my Jeep right now)
-cold weather sleeping bag (rated for the lowest temps you could see)
-extra WARM hat and mitts (right now, I've got a fur-lined trappers hat and snowmobile gloves)
-snow pants
-snowmobile boots
-fresh hot drink in insulated mug/bottle (usually coffee or hot chocolate)
-corn shovel
-extra washer fluid
-phone charger
-my Get Home Back/Winter Day Hike kit (It's a bit of a cheat for a top ten list, but here's a look at the current contents: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pnoNOdK2yc)


When the family comes with me, we load up extra warm stuff, snacks, drinks, etc. for them too. Everyone takes a BOB/GHB when we travel any distance in the winter!

Great list -- what's a "corn shovel?"

You remind me that on a drive to New Jersey earlier this month there was so much salt on the roads that the spray where it was damp was coating my windshield to the point of near-blindness. Took so much windshield wiper fluid to be able to see that I nearly ran out.

I was in a three-car convoy. We each bought a gallon of wiper fluid after we got to our destination. Two of the cars, including mine, took virtually the entire gallon to re-fill.

I won't be carrying wiper fluid but will definitely try to be better about making sure it is topped off before a drive out of my home area.


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A corn shovel (a.k.a. corn scoop shovel) is a shovel with a wide scoop and high walls along that scoop. Makes moving snow much easier, especially if you're thinking of shoveling yourself out of a ditch instead of a driveway.

Mine is kind of like this: http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/troy-bilt-aluminum-d-handle-snow-shovel-0596904p.html#.UulRqT1dXj4


Topping off your wiper fluid before you leave is smart! I carry a bottle in case I forget, or in the event that it's a particularly messy drive. A messy windshield is a terrible driving hazard. Snow will work for a one-off cleaning, but won't get me home.

Speaking of topping up your vehicle fluids, check out the condition of all your gear - boots included. If you don't, you may never know when a fail is lurking around the corner, like this one I experienced yesterday:



It never hurts to have a little duct tape in your kits:




p.s. Thank goodness I keep those snowmobile boots in the Jeep. They're awesome in super cold weather, particularly when you aren't mobile, and they made awesome back-up for my every day boots.

My favorites

Shovel (materials transfer shovel in aluminum, ie corn shovel)
(make it collapsible http://blog.owareusa.com/2012/12/30/make-a-tough-avalanche-shovel-from-a-hardware-store-version/)

Tire Chains (better than 4 wheel drive)
Complete set of waterproof and insulated clothes, shoes, mitts
Spare windshield squirt
Nylon jerk strap WITHOUT metal hooks for pulling car out of ditch
Jumper cables
Headlamps
Wool blanket(s)

If possible, I prefer to get back on the road and to a safe warm place rather than have to shelter in a spot exposed to traffic and cold. If one car goes off the road at a spot, more will likely follow.

I realize this is "Hot"lanta and not given to lots of winter snow storms but from those of us who live in northern climates - very little of this chaos would even have occurred at all. Because:
a) highway crews are prepared with snow plows and sanders
b) people are used to winter conditions and drive accordingly and
c) a lot of vehicles have snow tires.
d) it was only 3" of snow, which is hardly anything!
This just goes to show you that people in different climate zones prepare differently and while you or I may be prepared, a southenern may not be prepared at all for the 1-in-10 year or 1-in-25 year snow storm occurence.

That said -- if you aren't equipped for winter at all, why are you on the road? All people had to do was check the weather forecast/highway hotline to make the determination of whether to travel or not. If you don't have winter travelling experience, don't know how to handle your vehicle in snow/ice, don't have snow tires or at the very least have better quality all-seasons with enough tread then why make the decision to drive? What is so important that you can't defer your trip?

All the rest of the prep items you mentioned are really post-incident preparedness instead of pre-incident. Somebody who was truly prepared and equipped for the conditions probably already made the decision of not to be out driving in the middle of it.

Anecedote: A woman calling into a local talk radio station complained bitterly about how the trucks were kicking up snow clouds and road salt as they travelled during a recent snow storm. She thought that during inclement weather that these types of vehicles had "no business" being on the road and obscuring the vision of small vehicles, while she was simply travelling into the city to shop. Then another fellow chimed in and rebuked this caller saying that the trucks have required schedules for deliveries to meet business/customer/consumer requirements, have better training and more experience driving in snow and if anyone had a real need to be on the road during the snowstorm it was them -- not the shill of a housewife. She became very silent as the light bulb in her little head finally turned on.

The point is: we as the drivers have the responsibility to make the go/no go decision of whether to drive in bad conditions. Why didn't more people in Georgia just say no?

Known on the prairies as a "grain shovel". We use them to shovel grain around the truck beds and into auger bins for the graineries.

Yeah, I need to add tire chains to my truck's permanent kit. I've got lots of stuff to keep me warm and fed on the road -- even have a couple stoves to cook and make coffee. But snow chains have been off the list of things I need for a long long while. I saw them the other day and know where they are; tomorrow a set will be in my truck.

I agree---general rule is, "if you don't know what you are doing, don't do it."

But this seems to be superseded by "you don't know what you don't know", so drivers who have never experienced snow/ice etc. have no idea what it means, or what questions to ask, or what to do. So they default to doing the "usual." You might as well give them information in Klingon (which might be more successful)

I'm the only person I know in DC who carries tire chains (a habit ingrained from learning to drive a '69 Mustang on Oregon's Mt. Hood).

Chains are terrific, 4x4 and high ground clearance and experience in snow driving are wonderful. But if despite all that you are in a mass of stalled vehicles and there are guard rails on both sides, you are just as stuck as everyone else.

The Carmageddon list is about staying comfortable in a gridlock or breakdown situation you may not have any control over.


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I would be very careful about using any appliance with a live flame in any enclosed space - carbon monoxide. We will probably get a media story about deaths from people who fired up their barbeque grill or other makeshift device in order to keep warm - this unfortunately is a very predictable occurrence.

This is one reason I stash a flameless heater in my kit, although those evidently are no entirely hazard free, either. I have used backpacking stoves (Svea or similar) briefly and gotten away with it. They will raise the temperature noticeably, but unless your space is well insulated, the heat goes away quickly.

It is much safer to just bundle up and snuggle with a warm, receptive partner than risk CO poisoning - voice of experience here. "There is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes."

When I was a kid growing up in Dallas, we had a storm of this nature - everything was covered with ice, including the roads. Everyone got a forced lesson id winter driving. My father was raised in Illinois, and was fairly comfortable, but a lot of people got educated in ice driving the hard way. If you haven't driven on snow or ice before, the touch required is unbelievably delicate.

I commute to Atlanta, and was at work yesterday when the snow started (I regret not calling in because I know what a little snow does down here). I ended up letting myself in at work, and spending the night in a back office because of the traffic.

When it started snowing, the temperature was above freezing, so the snow -- especially on the roads -- melted and re-froze at first, and drivers compacted it down to sheets.

There were far too many people under-dressed for the over-night lows, because, "My car has a heater. I don't need a coat!" This is something I just don't understand.

My biggest regret is not having *spare* clothes in the car, especially socks.

I took a couple exploratory drives, and was nearly trapped in the masses a time or three, and I saw some saddening behaviors. Panic, inexperience, and a lack of education about some things, can really take their toll on people. I saw one person with a blow-out from spinning his tires hoping for traction. Apparently when the ice melted, he just burned out.

I'm willing to bet the old Palm Pilot stylus does not work. The modern phones that don't have an integrated stylus (like the Samsung Galaxy Note II), require what is referred to as a capacitive stylus. Their distinctive characteristic is a rubber ball at the tip around 1/4 inch in diameter. The old Palm Pilot stylus had a narrow tip made of hard plastic. These will not work and all you will likely do is scratch your screen.

YMMV
Craig

Unless you suddenly find yourself with a dead car battery. A quick cold snap is when a weak battery is most likely to give up the ghost. The small lithium ion batteries with USB connectors are everywhere now and prices are cheap. Definitely worth being able to keep the smartphone running in an emergency.

Craig

Not only do they not know what they don't know, but they've all no doubt heard/read lots of comments from northern folks saying "....a couple of inches of snow ain't not big deal..." So they think that since it isn't a big snow they don't need to worry.

Also, even in places like Anchorage, where driving on icy roads is an everyday thing in winter, people seem to forget over the summer. Every fall, on the first slippery day, I see lots of cars sliding around or in the ditch. After a day or so, winter driving habits kick in, and things get much better. In an area where most people have never learned proper winter driving, when icy roads come just at a high traffic time it should be no surprise that chaos results.

I did a test with tea lights a while ago: http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=213662&page=8

I see hikermor is still the resident "carbon monoxide Nazi." That's a good thing.

BTW, no-one has mentioned the unmentionable: TP, stout trash bags, and maybe a tarp for a privacy shelter outside one door.

TP (i.e. Kleenex packets) was on my list but I had not considered privacy.

My Element has clamshell side doors so a small tarp could close it in pretty well, I think. Will look at it and think that through.

You'd want to some privacy for sure, otherwise all ones cheeks could be posted on Reddit.


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The scientific notation would be "CO/Na" I've just been around too many close calls; it's a very tricky, nasty phenomenon.

I really think it would be worthwhile to repeat your tea candle heating trial and measure CO accumulation, perhaps with windows cracked open to various degrees....

Tricky and nasty indeed. I know people who have had close calls. If I had been in that vehicle, a window would have been cracked, period. Not just for fresh air, but to vent excess moisture.

At the time I didn't have suitable measuring equipment, but now I have an industrial client where portable gas monitoring (including CO) is routine, including pumps and tubing for remote sampling. Maybe I could pull a favour. Hmm.

No offense to Ohio peeps. Just like the contrast.

Sometimes the daily commute home can be tougher than Polar Expeditions if your not equipped to survive. Privacy Tarps are not required on most Arctic Polar expeditions just a shotgun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNkvASxfEWQ&list=PLA248541C895A47A4

Agreed! In SD we have almost winter, winter, still winter, and construction season. You'd think the people would be pretty used to snow since we're buried so much of the year but it's the same- that first snow and everyone acts like they're taking their first turn driving a rover on Mars. Either they're going 5 mph in a 35 or blasting by at 50. You usually catch up to the latter folks down the road a ways in a snow bank or on top of a fire hydrant.

In Alaska we have four distinct seasons. There's Early Winter, Mid Winter, Late Winter, and Next Winter!

What folks down south call "summer" is in Alaska just the transition from Late Winter to Next Winter. If it falls on a weekend we usually like to grill burgers out on the deck.

EDIT: Except this strange winter, these last couple of weeks in January have been more like summer?

I found an amazing type of tablet called the 'B-ook'. New text can't be uploaded to the screens; but they do come with hundreds of screens. And B-ooks need no batteries, can be thrown around without damage, are a supply of tinder, insulation and paper and cost a few pounds.
What will they think of next?
qjs



Found one odd gap-- my book read had plenty of power, but conflict between turning pages and keeping on gloves-
gloves were
A) too big
B) not conductive

think I might need to starting carrying a stylus for when I need to wear gloves..

doug.. thank you, I think it would be a worthwhile test .. I naturally would have a window open on the lee side of the wind, hence my comment about safety rules... with the pneumatic activated under dash vents in modern cars, I've always wondered how tightly sealed a car becomes without the motor running...anyone familiar with auto ventilation systems?

I do carry a 500 pager paper book in my car- how does that help in this situation?

Sunset in Nebraska is 5:30. Stuck in car from 5:15 to 7:00 PM.
Winter Gloves are even LESS conducive to turning pages than holding a stylus.
wasting a headlamp reading the paper book, or pulling out and trying to hold a flashlight.

I could try to read it using the candle, but, at you say, its flamable.....

please don't go all luddite on me, I have a paper library of a thousand books....

In Flagstaff, AZ, where I formerly resided, we had nine months of winter and three months of hard sledding. There is nothing between Alaska and Flagstaff except a barbed wire fence.

Dagny, my experience with a Heatsheet and fleece sleeping bag was on the near side of miserable. The evaporate just soaked the bag because the Heatsheet kept it in. Terrible. Now, in a car it may be different because you may be sitting up, which helps the "steam" escape. But, lying down, terrible.

Testy interview between a CNN anchor and Atlanta's mayor. With CNN and Weather Channel both based in Atlanta, there has been an unusually personal perspective on the part of reporters.

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2014/0...re-angry-at-me/


The link below is to an interesting in-depth look at the factors that make Atlanta particularly vulnerable to mass gridlock in any emergency. The reporter notes that this week's experience with barely more than two inches of snow have historical underpinnings in myriad political jurisdictions and past transportation infrastructure decisions as well as failures of leadership this week.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/01/atlanta-snow-storm-102839.html?hp=f2

The Day We Lost Atlanta
How 2 lousy inches of snow paralyzed a metro area of 6 million.

By REBECCA BURNS -- January 29, 2014


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Thanks for the insight, MoBOB. I'm much more confident in the 20-degree sleeping bag I keep in the car.


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As far as an inexpensive sleeping bag to outfit a carpool, this seems to me a good bet. I keep one rolled up behind my car seat.
N affiliation, just like old and wool.
http://store.colemans.com/cart/us-gi-wwii-era-sleeping-bag-p-2437.html

What I find funny is that no one is blaming the people who can't drive in snow, weren't smart enough to put gas in their cars, weren't prepared with proper clothing in case something happened, and then abandoned their cars in the middle of the road.

Back in 78 New England had a blizzard. My late father was called into work at the Navy Base. I think this was on a Sunday. About Friday he was allowed to come home, 35 miles, one way. He signed out a 5 ton to go down a major highway. Realize, the state was paralyzed and no roads were cleared. RI was effectively closed. When asked about his trip home, one line has stuck with me - "Volkswagens crunch when you go over the top of them."

Maybe I can find a surplus 5 ton around here.

Seattle also gets surprised by snow storms to the extent of folks walking away from their cars, sleeping under desks etc. A few years back we had a storm and the public outcry cost the Mayor his job for an ineffective response - he (and he alone mind you) should have plowed more (without more plows), should have used more deicer (when there wasn't a supply) and for god sakes avoided plowing a priority route right to his home address (the killer in Seattle politics). Granted, folks can always respond more responsibly and make alternate plans and preparations (stay home, ditch bag at work/sleep under desks, hold kids back from school), but face it - most parents won't hold their kids out of school if the schools are open, there are consequences for absences, and if the storm had gone a different direction their kids get dinged. Not staying home to look forward to a day of hot cocoa and watching the snow come down or not taking a ditch bag with you to work is just a lack of considering what might happen outside the realm of normalcy for the typical Atlantan. Even planning a What If 8 hours in the future is really difficult for the average folks when it comes to disruptive events. Walking home? What Atlanta commuter ever considered that?

Back to the Mayor. They are the visible pointy end of the stick, who are supposed to have the know how and wit to prepare his city with snowplows and emergency responses to ensure the city functions tip top during a very rare scenario. Uh huh. Mayors also have city councils who would laugh at emergency allocations in the fiscal budget proposed in May, if it were not for snow storms like this to educate elected and constituents. Mayors also bear the brunt of criticism for alarmism and economic harm when they go Condition Red on the city and the snowstorm misses their cities, and rivals will pounce on them. Believe it. Post Katrina however I think the prevalent expectation is that the mayor or governor or city superintendent can at least communicate reasoned, weather.com if not NOAA based alarm, and as a precaution close city buildings, shut down schools, and rally local commerce to do much the same, taking folks off the streets of Atlanta. Just like the mayors and governors did in the run up to Hurricane Sandy, or the artic chill in Minnesota just a while ago. Power of the pulpit. Did the mayor of Atlanta use his? That's the question.

Well, living in GA, this brought home one important point. DON'T EXPECT THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP IN A CRISIS!! Sorry for yelling.

What is amazing is that in the 23 county metro Atlanta area, most municipalities cannot sit in the same room and agree on the brand of coffee.. so agreeing to a disaster plan is a joke!

What is also interesting is that the mayor of Atlanta is getting the blame,when much of the problem was outside his jurisdiction..

The mess at I75/285 was actually in Cobb county...

I've never had the opportunity to check the misery index but I have an REI Travel Sack Sleeping Bag in my truck with the idea of using it as a base to prevent too much air movement, then layer over that with the wool and fleece blankets as needed. Nice thing about the REI Travel Sack is that there is no loft to compress so it stays rolled up in its bag and thus packs small. Hopefully I will not need to test this concept in arctic conditions. Being in SOCAL this is a safe bet. Until this winter I would have said that about Atlanta too

Saw one Weather Channel reporter, based in Atlanta, whining about her five hour commute to work. "Five hours to get to the studio!"

I guess she didn't have the gear to walk the one mile from her apartment to the studio.

My sister-in-law lives in Birmingham, AL. Formerly of Michigan and Massachusetts, she just rolls her eyes when it snows in the south. At one point recently there were just two state-owned snowplows in all of Alabama.

Last week around Philly we had 14" of snow with single digit temps on Tuesday. Wednesday morning all the roads were open and traffic was moving just fine.

Not picking on southerners, but it is amusing for us Yankees to watch videos of them slip-sliding away. Just glad that, apparently, no one died.

Pretty sure I read that the number of deaths was 5 with over 1000+ vehicle accidents reported. Many, many more would have probably died unnecessarily, unable to reach hospital in time and those that are suffering from the cold snap unable to heat their homes properly.

For an interesting take on Atlanta's problems see How 2 Inches of Snow Created a Traffic Nightmare in Atlanta WARNING: Read the article at your own risk! It is not possible to get too far into discussing mayors, municipalities, city councils, etc without running into that subject we dare not talk about on this forum, the dreaded word that begins with a "P". So I won't mention what the article says about that. However, even ignoring the article's comments on that forbidden topic, it does make some interesting points:
And as Lono pointed out, Seattle has had similar issues. As I'm sure many other areas do.

The '07 Camry has some ventilation WHEN MOVING unless the HVAC is set to recirculate. It is speed and other ventilation dependent. Cracking the sunroof or a rear window increases the flow coming through the dash vents. I don't know if this is shut off with the engine or not.

Remarkable account of one life saved in a most surprising way. Sometimes there's a lot more than meets the eye....

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/snowpocalypse-2014-he-started-shoving-but-he-may-h/nc7kf/


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Consider a small piece of foam material on the floor of the vehicle. Keeps your feet warm. It was standard carry when I lived in Maine.

Make sure you do not have anything loose on the floor while driving. Things can slide forward and jam the pedals. That's also the reasons why the car mat under need the driver should be fixed to the floor.

I kept my SHTF bag in my Jeep here outside of Birmingham. We got out and about every day in it, helping to snatch out stuck cars and checking on folks.

My Jeep has lockers and serious offroad tires and did very well but I will be ordering a set of snow chains. Not like they'll go bad if I don't use them right away.

Good plan. Chains aren't very expensive, don't take a lot of room and can offer tremendous mobility and safety enhancement. I've never used the chains I bought for my current vehicle but they give me peace of mind whenever I head out in a snowstorm.

Got mine from this place in Pennsylvania:

http://www.tirechain.com/

By the way, I learned to drive stick on a 1953 Willys that had been outfitted with a short-block Chevy V8. We lived in Oregon's Cascade mountains. Fun times.

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2" snow on Tuesday and Atlanta schools are closed Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

That's what many parents would call a disaster....

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local-education/atlanta-schools-stay-closed-friday/nc7QD/



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An interesting map of the country. Map: 'How Much Snow It Typically Takes to Cancel School in the U.S.'

Here in Anchorage, snow isn't unusual and the city does a reasonably good job of clearing it, so they rarely close schools because of snow. What does close schools occaisionally in Anchorage is extremely slick icy conditions (freezing rain, or similar). At times Anchorage turns into one giant skating rink.

Would be interesting to see school closures based on Temps too.

Those little dark blue counties in California-- think Donner Party with 25 feet of snow in October.

"Truckee, Calif. — If your kids have had a snow day in March you live in snow country.

If your kids have had a snow day in June you live in Truckee.

If you've ever had to clear snow off your driveway twice in the same day — snow country.

If you've ever had to clear snow off your driveway twice in the same hour — Truckee.

If you've ever bought a season pass in August so you can ski all winter — snow country.

If you've ever bought a season pass in April so you can ski all summer — Truckee.

If you've ever put a 6-foot bike whip on your mailbox to locate it in the winter — snow country.

If you've ever put a 20-foot flag pole on your house to locate it in the winter — Truckee.

If you've ever had to chain up your SUV to get to work you're in snow country.

If you've ever had to chain up your SUV to get out of your drive way you're in Truckee.

If you have ever shoveled your side walk so guests could get to your house for Thanksgiving Dinner — snow country.

If you have ever shoveled your side walk so guests could get to your house for Memorial Day barbecue — Truckee.

If you ever used your lawn mower and snow blower in the same month — snow country.

If you ever used your lawn mower and snow blower in the same day — Truckee.

If you use heat tape to keep Icicles off your roof you live in snow country.

If you use a bat to keep the icicles off the heat tape you're in Truckee.

If you've ever actually worn out a snow shovel you live in snow country.

If you've ever actually worn out a snow blower you live in Truckee.

If you have snow every month from October to May you live in snow country.

If you have snow every month you live in Truckee.

If you think the above is an exaggeration of the truth — you live in snow country

If you think the above doesn't do winter here justice — you definitely live in Truckee."

http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20110607/COMMUNITY/110609915

Thanks for the link to tirechains.com. The place I recently saw chains had zero chains available... probably sent them all to outlets in the South


I have one of the older non-touchscreen Kindles that has buttons to turn the page. As for why a Kindle or other electronic device designed for reading books, mine has a library of reading, more than you could carry in a big book bag and while it does require electricity to run, I can charge it just about anywhere. Until we get hit with the big EMP, my Kindle will be good to go. YMMV

I've considered getting chains, but after much consideration -

Realized I probably wouldn't ever take the time to put them on... and that's most likely not going to be in a warm garage.

Secondly, your limited to 35 MPH. I guess if you REALLY need the chains, you won't be going over that speed anyway..

I have a set of four Blizzak Snow Tires mounted on steel rims. I swap them out every spring for all season radials. Rims cost me $100 from the junk yard, and the tires were $50 each, and I will get many years of use out of them.

Many years ago I used to carry chains all the time during the winters here in DC. Until one snowy/icy/windy storm shut down route 7 heading home for hours. I struggled to put the chains on in those conditions, right on the road. I decided then that the next car would be a 4x4.

So I have been driving Subarus since about 1982. Good all season tires, and I've been in a couple of really bad snows and always got through. No Drama. Of course, it doesn't let you drive over the folks stuck in front, beside and behind you, but neither do chains.

Thus this thread. Sit there and, ummmh, chill out.

I actually just ordered some emergency tire chains from that same site! I debated getting full-on chains but for now I don't really need them. The emergency ones consist of a pair of 2-chain units that you can strap on for instant traction. That's more what I end up needing (a burst of traction to get out of a bad parking lot or side street).

Looks like Atlanta-area leaders and residents are getting an opportunity this week to demonstrate if they learned anything from last month's Carmageddon.

Public officials seem to be erring on the side of caution this time. Best wishes to all in the storm's path.

We may be getting a significant storm in DC on Thursday. I actually needed eggs-bread-milk so got that done at lunch today. So bring it on, Mother Nature!

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/winters-storm-warnings-advisories-and-watches-fore/ndJgM/


Gov. Nathan Deal doesn’t want to take any chances after the icy gridlock embarrassed Georgia in late January. He encouraged residents in the storm’s path to “be off the road by early evening” Monday as transportation crews prepare the roads. Deal also asked tractor-trailers, which caused mayhem during the January storm, to steer clear of I-285.

The governor convened his emergency response team at 11 a.m. Monday, including executives from hospitals and utility companies. Deal said he was particularly worried about the “devastating” impact of ice dragging down power lines.

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No salt to be had here at all. The stores that had it sold out, the ones who had none can't order any, "too late in the season". Supposed to be snow followed by freezing rain ... o yay, and the natives can't drive when it's clear out. Guess I will sit in the house and do whatever and if the power goes out go get the stoves/lantern out of the garage.

DW just got a new car with AWD. With luck tho, she'll be home before the worst hits, her boss is from Florida.

I'm really curious about how things will pan out in the Atlanta area. I've been keeping an eye on the current conditions and hourly forecasts over the next couple days.

I've already been witnessing the snow panic among people in the area. One person was desperate to find entertainment for his kids since they'll apparently be "snowed in" for the "next three or four days" without a way to get out and do anything (literal whining sounds omitted).

It isn't even supposed to dip below freezing until evening ... tomorrow.

My girlfriend stopped for a couple grocery needs on her way home from work, and there were literally three loaves of bread left in the store.

The most likely scenario is that I will end up leaving work a little early, to deal with evening traffic panic in a more timely manner. The only real trouble I see will be from other drivers buttpuckering over every drop of rain.

Are you in an area where there is hard water? If so, every lumber yard, gas station, and grocery store will have pallets of water softener salt. The granulated type, mixed with 90% sand, is what I use on my sloping driveway in Minnesota.

Chances are (pretty much guaranteed) even if there was no loaves available in the super market, the home baking section will have bags of Wholemeal, White Bread Flour and Yeast available. And you can even bake bread without a bread machine even in the garden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDW0y31CYos

Get the Children involved as well, to keep them entertained.

Or just make pancakes or something similar. My leftovers are often made into a sandwich and they work pretty well, if I do say so....

Oh, yeah. I'm aware. She was checking for the sake of checking.

That said, I put the radio on a talk/news station this morning on my way to work and home, and the reporters were assuring everyone that more bread and milk were, in fact, on their way to local stores to be re-stocked.