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#265485 - 12/04/13 10:36 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2196
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
The south comment was a bit tongue in cheekl obviously elevation can overcome latitude. Growing up in So Cal, we drove to weather.

But regarding snow here: sure we may get a dusting or a rare storm but its no where near the intensity or duration of other areas. While I personally have clothing appropriate for that type of weather, its not something I actively plan for. Even took the wool out of my truck.

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#265498 - 12/04/13 09:24 PM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2761
Loc: Big Sky Country
Hahaha! Go far enough south and you have snow again (like the South Pole)!
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#265503 - 12/05/13 12:28 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7349
Loc: southern Cal
My experience and thinking about BOBs stems primarily from a couple of decades of fairly intensive SAR work in th highly variable climate of southern Arizona, so first of all, I would suggest that an effective BOB will need to be seasonally adjusted, at least for most of us. In southern Arizona, we faced temperatures ranging from -35F (at altitude in winter) to 108F (amid the cactus in summer). Since the SAR pack in the summer was essentially a giant water bottle, our winter packs were actually lighter.

Everyone's scenarios will be different, and the minimal contents of your pack should reflect the varying possibilities. Like Russ, in the case of wildfire, I will definitely bug out - I have actually had the car loaded and ready to go on two occasions already. In case of earthquake, my preference will be to bug in, at least initially.

Obviously, if circumstances permit, leaving in a vehicle is preferable. It certainly helps if you have looked at worst case scenarios and thought and packed for leaving on foot. For me,an attractive option would be BOOB (bugging out on bicycle - a lot more range than on foot, and not as restricted as a vehicle).

Basically, if you have the ten (or fourteen or so) essentials covered, you will probably be in business. And your pack will likely bear a striking resemblance to a backpacker's rig.
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Geezer in Chief

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#265533 - 12/05/13 11:19 PM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: Herman30]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Herman30
When walking through deep snow it is of great help to have ski poles. Preferably cross-country poles with larger baskets.


And skis. Or snow shoes (which usually are slower and more energy consuming than skis, except in some limited circumstances. But some find them easier to learn than skiing. They are also easier to pack in a standard vehicle).

But then there's snow, perhaps with a little breeze to make things more fun. It doesn't really take much of either to make trafic grind to a halt. And there are what I call proper blizzards (snow storms). Phaedrus gave a pretty good explanation of what that feels like:

Originally Posted By: Phaedrus

If you've never been in a bad blizzard out in the open it's hard to understand just how disorienting it is. Wind stings your eyes, blinding you. There's no way to tell direction and no visible landmarks. You could be fifty feet from your front door and never see it.


I'd like to add: Communication is hard and cumbersome, bordering impossible for anything but the easiest excange of really simple messages (turn the back to the wind, get really intimate, then shout - slow and clear, pronounce every syllable clearly).

Once it gets bad enough, googles and face mask are really, really sweet (or forget about facing the wind). A hood that actually works is absolutely nescessary (most hoods are not anywhere large enough, or you can't make the opening in front small enough). To prevent you from going mad you need gaiters or trouser with built-in gaiter-like function to stop snow from creeping up your trouser leg (it will find its way to the naked skin of your ancle, and this will make you go mad, trust me). You must be able to use your GPS and/or maps with thick mittens or gloves - you really don't want to take those off your hands in a blizzard. Drop a glove and it's gone, period. (Find some shelter if you really must take anything off.) Be prepared to dig in and wait it out (shovel, bivy bag, drink, snack, extra clothing).

In most civilized places, trafic will usually stop a long time before you have conditions that bad. But moving on foot can still be anything from quite easy to very challenging, and visibility can be very limited. If it's blowing _*at all*_ you can bet your life that the snow banks will be much deeper once you get past the point of no return. Not to mention that the weather can turn much worse while you trudge your way.

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#265547 - 12/06/13 04:03 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2761
Loc: Big Sky Country
Right now it's -5 F, but it feels better than it did this morning; it was +2 with a 25 mph wind! We got four inches of snow and the wind was driving it like bullets. Driven like that it stings your eyes, pricks your skin and makes it hard to see. You really feel like the fluid in your eyeballs in going to freeze! And that's not even "really cold" compared to how cold it can get here, much less what they have to deal with in somewhere like AK or NWT.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#267013 - 01/31/14 04:27 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2475
In nearly all cases - stay with your car.

- easier to find you
-warmer
-less likely to get lost
-less likely to get hit by a passing plow

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#267014 - 01/31/14 04:48 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1413
Loc: Cranbrook BC (Finally)
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
In nearly all cases - stay with your car.

- easier to find you
-warmer
-less likely to get lost
-less likely to get hit by a passing plow


Sometimes, the only option is to walk. Brain Surgeon walked six miles for emergency operation.
_________________________
Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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#267019 - 01/31/14 07:02 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: Teslinhiker]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2919
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
In nearly all cases - stay with your car.

- easier to find you
-warmer
-less likely to get lost
-less likely to get hit by a passing plow


Sometimes, the only option is to walk. Brain Surgeon walked six miles for emergency operation.



Generally, staying with your vehicle is the clear winner, statistically, from a survival perspective.

But I have to say that this is the emergency brain surgeon I want on my side, who didn't hesitate to walk six miles:

“He [the patient] had a 90 percent chance of death,” Hrynkiw said. “If he didn’t have surgery, he’d be dead. It’s not going to happen on my shift,” he added."

Big round of applause.

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#267023 - 01/31/14 08:56 AM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2761
Loc: Big Sky Country
Agreed! I admire the doc's drive and compassion. Not gonna let a missed tee time or raging blizzard stop an operation- good on him!
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#267040 - 01/31/14 04:13 PM Re: Walking speeds in Winter [Re: dougwalkabout]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
In nearly all cases - stay with your car.

- easier to find you
-warmer
-less likely to get lost
-less likely to get hit by a passing plow


Sometimes, the only option is to walk. Brain Surgeon walked six miles for emergency operation.



Generally, staying with your vehicle is the clear winner, statistically, from a survival perspective.

But I have to say that this is the emergency brain surgeon I want on my side, who didn't hesitate to walk six miles:

“He [the patient] had a 90 percent chance of death,” Hrynkiw said. “If he didn’t have surgery, he’d be dead. It’s not going to happen on my shift,” he added."

Big round of applause.


Kudos to Dr. Hrynkiw for not letting the mess on the roads stop him from getting to a patient in need.
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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