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#264766 - 11/02/13 12:48 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Reviewing the incidents to which I have responded over the years, there are two common factors that characterize victims - inexperience and alcohol (as in legally drunk, even at autopsy). Some were also high on various and sundry drugs.I am talking about victims in the 70s and 80s - I imagine the drug picture is now more complex.

One personal benefit from my SAR experience is the transformation from typical college party boy to a very occasional sipper of beer and wine.
I imagine more than a few of us have made that transition. It's been years since I have been over the DUI/DWI limit. As I recall I'd reached my destination after a very long drive, and was trying to relax and chill over a few glasses of a very nice red.

But your observation calls into question the premise of this thread; how do you convince people who are intentionally drunk or illegally high to be responsible and carry a small piece of kit, when they are in a very irresponsible mode? That may be a rhetorical question, but it follows from hikermor's observation.

Designate someone to be responsible? Yeah, like I'd want to be that guy....

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#264767 - 11/02/13 01:07 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Boy Scouts has been doing that for many decades. Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts ... not so much ... except for the groups I was associated with. This was actually how I got hooked into ETS to begin with.

I think this is also why Doug made the Personal Survival Paks. They provide a high-quality low-cost fast way to gear up in a tiny way. Supplement the PSP as recommended in its instructions (shelter, FAK, knife, water) and you're pretty darn good to go.

REMINDER: Doug's Personal Survival Pak would make a GREAT gift for any holiday ... including Thanksgiving day, Valentine's Day, Sweetest Day , anniversaries, birthdays, Saturdays, ...

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#264770 - 11/02/13 06:47 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
It's been my experience that those who regularly inebriate themselves, whether by legal means or otherwise, will seldom be receptive to any form of reason, even when sober, so as to affect their condition positively should they face crisis after imbibing in an intoxicant.

It seems a reasonable conclusion that those who are reckless and irresponsible enough to risk impairment when subjecting themselves to perils and hazards of an unfamiliar and insecure environment will not take any counsel to heed for their own good. One of those "You can lead a horse to water..." things I guess.

But then I suppose we all succumb to bouts of poor judgment from time to time. Those of us fortunate enough to realize we are human have the chance to pre-empt some of our troubles. So even though we may find ourselves wanting in an adverse situation, we have a better chance of surviving our "adventures".
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#264778 - 11/03/13 07:43 AM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
If we ignore the inebriated idiots as they're largley beyond hope, the best way to do it would be to have it in a prepackaged kit. Package it similiar to a 72 hour kit backpack and stick Bear Grylls name on it.

Make it as idiot proof as possible, so no sharps or fire. Focus on staying put, warm, dry, hydrated, and signalling for help. Anybody inexperienced enough to need it is as liable as not to open up a vein or start a brush fire trying to stay warm and dry.

As an example:
Reference cards (S.T.O.P., how to use a whistle, compass, mirror, basic knots, etc.)
Basic FAK
Emergency suglasses
Poncho with blanket liner
Emergency pup tent/bivy sack
Lensatic compass (I've run ito a lot of people who are worthless with a baseplate compass)
Storm, or other big and loud whistle
Signal mirror
Foil packaged water (2 quarts)
Plastic bodied compact flashlight loaded with lithiums. Run time over output.
Hot packs
Granola bars
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#264784 - 11/03/13 02:47 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Analogous to auto safety? Engineering and legislative changes made big impacts on ER casualties in the 70's: dui plus seat belts/airbags plus improved ski boots/bindings resulted in quieter Saturday nights for orthopedic surgeons and er staff. Next steps would HUI (hiking under the influence) legislation, Official rucksack with pre-packaged survival gear and plbs, and increased ranger presence. Eventually, drone surveillance will solve lots of the problems. Maybe a harness on each hiker with high strength monofilament tethers attached to powered reels: at the end of the day, fire up the diesel and haul 'em in.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#264788 - 11/04/13 02:29 AM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: Mark_R]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
Emergency suglasses


I don't question the usefulness of sunglasses. But it does make me wonder: what did people do for thousands of years before sunglasses? Did desert travelers have an alternative? What did sailors do to combat the endless sun, and nowhere to hide, on the open sea?

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#264790 - 11/04/13 02:44 AM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Arctic peoples developed eye coverings with narrow slits to protect against glare and consequent snow blindness. I imagine there were other measure elsewhere in bright conditions. I also suspect that many people had really bad vision before they were too dreadfully old.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#264795 - 11/04/13 04:44 AM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
Yeah, slit goggles go back many centuries. IIRC something akin to the eyeblack that football players use was also made out of charcoal.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#264805 - 11/04/13 02:34 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: nursemike]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: nursemike
Analogous to auto safety? Engineering and legislative changes made big impacts on ER casualties in the 70's: dui plus seat belts/airbags plus improved ski boots/bindings resulted in quieter Saturday nights for orthopedic surgeons and er staff. Next steps would HUI (hiking under the influence) legislation, Official rucksack with pre-packaged survival gear and plbs, and increased ranger presence. Eventually, drone surveillance will solve lots of the problems. Maybe a harness on each hiker with high strength monofilament tethers attached to powered reels: at the end of the day, fire up the diesel and haul 'em in.

That sounds far too Big Brother. I'm sorry, but you have to be your own person and can't expect the government to regulate everything. The government is best which governs least.

If you're play stupid games and win stupid prizes, too darn bad.

If you play stupid games but think ahead a little bit, well, that's probably most of us at one point.

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#265326 - 11/25/13 06:04 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
...If I could get hikers to 1. leave a note and 2. carry a pack with water and a jacket, I'd be halfway home. No one expects to get hurt/lost/ delayed...you just have to assume...and prepare

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