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#264746 - 11/01/13 04:06 PM tiny little backpack for outdoors
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Many of the stories of got lost in the outdoors are not from overnight hikers, but rather people off for a walk in the woods. My thought is that even if they had only a tiny pack (Camelbak or similar) & a jacket they would be much better off.

So -- How do we encourage people to take a pack every time they go for a walk/hike?

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#264747 - 11/01/13 04:11 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
We can talk and show people stories. be aware of how they react and stop before we irritate them. Bring the subject up again when it seems good.

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#264752 - 11/01/13 06:52 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Show them the stories of these people who got lost, were isolated in a wrecked car, or caught in unexpected circumstances. They will see how a minimum of preparation will save a lot of pain.

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#264753 - 11/01/13 07:07 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
When I was doing SAR, members of our group regularly gave presentations to groups, most often elementary school classes on basic overnight survival if you were ever "confused' on an outing.

One night we were beating the bushes for a kid who had wandered away on an outing. About 2 AM we learned that he had attended one of my recent presentations. This definitely upped the stakes for me.

About dawn we found him. He had sought shelter and got some rest; in fact, he was sound asleep when an earlier search party had gone by.

I don't think we necessarily have to encourage people to carry a lot of stuff in the woods. It is more important to encourage folks to acquire the knowledge and skills that will serve them well in an emergency.

I can think of three instances where parties carrying a reasonable amount of gear got into trouble. A hiker with a fifty pound pack was sitting still, quietly going hypothermic on a cold, misty night when we contacted him. He informed us that "it was impossible to start a fire."

In the second case a party with backpacks, startled by an unexpected turn in the weather, started to run, discarding their gear. They did indeed create a genuine problem when one of them turned an ankle. They did have their priorities; all had their bongs when we reached them.

Another backpacking party managed to saturate their sleeping bags by sleeping outside their tents as a storm arrived (!!). The following day they attempted to surmount a pass; when they reached the pass, one of them could go no further. They left him there (taking his gear) and then headed downhill to their cars. The next evening we reached the frozen corpse after an all night hike through deep snow. They had attended a "survival school" after getting in trouble on an earlier trip - can't say they learned very much.

My point would be that education should stress acquiring skills and knowledge, not just shiny goodies and trinkets. What is between the ears is far more important than what is in the pack. In the best situation, both are well equipped to survive.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#264754 - 11/01/13 08:08 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
There are the people who with no gear can survive insane conditions and walk out hale and hearty. There are people who call 911 when McD's runs out of chicken nuggets.

Education is great. But like you can lead a horse to water... some people will still wander around relatively clueless, do stupid things in stupid ways and endanger other people who are looking for them.

The best I can do is be prepared for what may happened, try to calm those around me when it does and assume a leadership role to ensure the group gets through.

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#264759 - 11/01/13 09:39 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
When I was doing SAR, members of our group regularly gave presentations to groups, most often elementary school classes on basic overnight survival if you were ever "confused' on an outing.

One night we were beating the bushes for a kid who had wandered away on an outing. About 2 AM we learned that he had attended one of my recent presentations. This definitely upped the stakes for me.

About dawn we found him. He had sought shelter and got some rest; in fact, he was sound asleep when an earlier search party had gone by.

I don't think we necessarily have to encourage people to carry a lot of stuff in the woods. It is more important to encourage folks to acquire the knowledge and skills that will serve them well in an emergency.
.....................snip.......
My point would be that education should stress acquiring skills and knowledge, not just shiny goodies and trinkets. What is between the ears is far more important than what is in the pack. In the best situation, both are well equipped to survive.
hikermor, those are great stories making the point. Carrying some gear is good, and I'm not suggesting people should go out without appropriate clothing and equipment. But a bit of ordinary common sense, together with a bit of survival specific knowledge, and some plain old will to survive is the most important thing.

Also, as JBMat says below, we can be prepared to assist others as best we can.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#264760 - 11/01/13 10:23 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: hikermor]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: hikermor
In the second case a party with backpacks, startled by an unexpected turn in the weather, started to run, discarding their gear. They did indeed create a genuine problem when one of them turned an ankle. They did have their priorities; all had their bongs when we reached them.


Does this happen a lot? We just did that scenario in a mock exercise, almost identical. (Group smoked pot, ran when the weather turned, discarding gear. Victim fell and was separated from the group.) The only difference is that the injury is a fractured forearm rather than a sprained ankle.

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#264762 - 11/01/13 10:44 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

a couple Public Service billboards on freeways leading to some of the big park areas might be something for SAR groups to push for.
they have "do you know where your kid is" why not "are you ready to get lost?"..people of course zip by at 90MPH but it might jog a few people to put a few extra crunchy bars and that foil bag they see at the 7-11 check out into a pocket..

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#264763 - 11/01/13 11:15 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: TeacherRO]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1177
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The law is still on the books, but I don't think it is enforced anymore--

When on US Forest land you were required to have a shovel, axe and bucket in the summer for fire suppression. They used to ticket you if your group didn't have it.
Didn't matter if you were on foot, motorcycle or car.

If i wasn't such a bleeding heart libertarian, I would like a similar law for other needed emergency gear based on environs, (avi gear in avi terrain, water in the desert, etc.)

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#264764 - 11/01/13 11:25 PM Re: tiny little backpack for outdoors [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Reviewing the incidents to which I have responded over the years, there are two common factors that characterize victims - inexperience and alcohol (as in legally drunk, even at autopsy). Some were also high on various and sundry drugs.I am talking about victims in the 70s and 80s - I imagine the drug picture is now more complex.

One personal benefit from my SAR experience is the transformation from typical college party boy to a very occasional sipper of beer and wine.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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