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#263878 - 10/01/13 02:22 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: MDinana]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5169
Loc: SOCAL
Gold and silver have been money for eons -- 5000 years give or take.

from: The Meaning of Money: Its Purposes and Functions
Quote:
... Gold and silver, commodities with inherent value and with pedigrees as money going back thousands of years, are emerging as the choice for universal money. The ability of these precious metals to always act as a store of value makes them an unparalleled choice for such a job. Moreover a series of competitive currency devaluations is likely (known as a "beggar thy neighbour policy") as each country tries desperately to increase its exports at the expense of the other. Gold is now rising in value against all of the world's major currencies....
Bottom line is that money that comes off a printing press is properly called currency. Currencies can be devalued and their buying power can change dramatically over time. Paper currency is not a store of value. Have you ever wondered why the central banks of the world transact in gold?

Gold is a true store over value/wealth. Gold expressed in dollars appears to go up and down in value, but the truth is that an ounce of gold is always an ounce of gold; it is the dollar going up and down in value. Stop thinking of gold as an investment; it is money.

BTW, I won't be using gold or silver to barter for food or bullets, don't need to.

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#263879 - 10/01/13 02:54 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: MDinana]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
Gold and silver have no practical purpose in life, other than it's "rare" and shiny.


I used to use Silver alloys for welding bicycle frames together and they used to use silver alloys in Aerospace applications for welding together the titanium alloy structures for Vulcan Bombers together as well.

Silver has its uses and make for some very nice Sterling Silver cutlery as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_silver

Try asking the wife for their gold jewelry to sell for some gardening tools/bags of fertilizer etc and see how far you get! laugh

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#263880 - 10/01/13 03:13 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Quote:
Gold and silver have no practical purpose in life, other than it's "rare" and shiny.


I used to use Silver alloys for welding bicycle frames together and they used to use silver alloys in Aerospace applications for welding together the titanium alloy structures for Vulcan Bombers together as well.

Silver has its uses and make for some very nice Sterling Silver cutlery as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_silver

Try asking the wife for their gold jewelry to sell for some gardening tools/bags of fertilizer etc and see how far you get! laugh



In a SHTF economy, or economic disaster, are you really going to be making airplanes, bombers, or bike frames? I should probably edit my above post to say there's very little practical application for gold/silver, but you're right in that there are some uses.

Gold (and to a lesser extent, silver, or heck, any precious gem) have value only because people want them to have value. In practical terms, they're near useless. Look at every third world country... food, water and shelter.

The only thing precious metals/gems are good for ie exchanging for goods with people that think they're worth the exchange. Cut out the second half of that (ie, "I'd rather keep this than hold on to a chunk of metal), and the whole system falls apart. There's a reason why bartering got replaced by currency, but if it goes back the other way ...

As for my wife, if the kid has dropped 10 lbs and is starving to death (she's only 17 lbs right now), I'm sure that jewlery is gone for a can of formula.


Edited by MDinana (10/01/13 03:26 PM)

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#263882 - 10/01/13 03:57 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: MDinana]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:

As for my wife, if the kid has dropped 10 lbs and is starving to death (she's only 17 lbs right now), I'm sure that jewlery is gone for a can of formula.


This happened quite frequently in eastern Europe during the Jewish Pogrom of the 1930-40s when the ghetto's were setup under the German Nazi Regime. Those with the most Gold and Silver left to trade for food survived the longest before dying of Starvation. Those with a large amounts of Gold where able to trade their gold even for freedom and passage to other neutral countries such as Sweden and Switzerland.

Gold and Silver ownership has its place in the last ditch effort to survive in absolutely barbaric times.

As mentioned in the third world, the means to survival is definitely food, potable water and shelter. The lack of these resources is due to poverty i.e. the lack of enough wealth to purchase such items. If fiat paper currency becomes worthless through devaluation i.e. hyper inflation then the second line means of trade will become Gold and Silver or other precious metals. This has been historically true.

If a bartering system becomes the predominant system of trade, then you may well find yourself going back in time 2000-2500 years. Primitive times indeed and I would have to say even medieval dark age populations densities also!





Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (10/01/13 03:58 PM)

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#263887 - 10/01/13 05:17 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 857
Loc: Colorado
There was a link to a fairly thoughtful article about how things were in Argentina during their most recent collapse.

One notable item was that junk gold rings made the very best trading "money." Easily divided, easily recognized.

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#263894 - 10/01/13 07:17 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Arney]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 853
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: hikermor
"So non-essential personnel are going to be told to stay home, if I read the local news correctly. And why are we paying non-essential personnel - think about it. Just a thought."

There's no guarantee that workers told to stay home will ever be paid for that time off. That's totally up to Congress. During the last shutdown, they were paid their backpay but like I said, that's not guaranteed.


Umm, Arney. Non-essential personnel includes most of the people than work at the federal goverment's (including DOD, DOI, DOE, EPA, etc) various departments and maintain the goverments facilities and vehicles. "Essential personnel" usually refer to immediate national security and emergency services needs.

In short, the guy manning the lighthouse is probably safe. The guy who patches the lighthouses roof or makes sure there's spare parts; not so much.
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#263896 - 10/01/13 09:24 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I'm responding to hikemore's comment, "...So non-essential personnel are going to be told to stay home...why are we paying non-essential personnel..."

My response is that that non-essential personnel may not get paid at all for the days they are told to stay home. I'm not commenting on whether these should come in to work or not.

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#263897 - 10/01/13 09:25 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6941
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
In short, the guy manning the lighthouse is probably safe. The guy who patches the lighthouses roof or makes sure there's spare parts; not so much.


Don't fret about the lighthouses. I believe there is only one manned lighthouse in the US - the one in Boston Harbor, and it is manned only for historical reasons. All the others are automated with up to date technology, so we all know nothing can go wrong, go wrong.......
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#263898 - 10/01/13 10:04 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5169
Loc: SOCAL
Not political, just funny...
Shut Day Humor: Is The Government Closed?

We need to lighten it up a bit wink

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#263899 - 10/01/13 10:04 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I initially made the statement about non-essential personnel. And it has come to roost, as 50% of the non-military people at FT Bragg are being told to stay home (If you can believe the local news.)

Way back when, someone (in an alcohol induced haze I reckon) determined I was mission essential. Maybe it was the fact I am a great spades player, as it sure wasn't my ability to make coffee (the SGM banned me from making the COL's coffee, twice).
More than likely, it was the fact I ran a one man office and no one else could figure out how I did what I did. It meant I had to go to work on snow days. And the day after the hurricane.

Regardless, it appears as if half of the DOD civilian workforce is not essential. This does not count contractors either, just DOD civilian personnel. I guess the guys in the camo suits get to mow lawns now.

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