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#263854 - 10/01/13 03:56 AM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Russ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
It's not politics.
You never, ever acced to blackmail or negotiate for hostages.
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I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#263856 - 10/01/13 04:02 AM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I must agree with Russ and the mods on this. This is a non-political forum.


Edited by hikermor (10/01/13 04:04 AM)
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#263857 - 10/01/13 04:27 AM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: hikermor]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
It's official....The Shutdown is on.

It will be interesting to see the true effect, since we haven't had one in a good 17 or so years.

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#263861 - 10/01/13 05:59 AM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3152
Loc: Big Sky Country
Hard to see this thread going much longer at the rate it's going.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#263863 - 10/01/13 09:01 AM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Mark_R]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 477
Loc: Somerset UK
From a safe distance, the shutdown itself may not be that bad, except for those directly affected by no or much reduced pay.

My concern would be that the shutdown might just possibly trigger a general lack of confidence in the whole system and leed to bank runs or other countries dumping USA investments.

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#263867 - 10/01/13 01:17 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: benjammin]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: benjammin
That's funny. People are holding on to dollars that are steadily losing money, and will be worthless long before precious metals start to fail, yet still see gold and silver holdings as a risk in an extended crisis.

When the dollar collapses, it could happen in hours. The transition to a full on barter only system will take weeks, as people realize that the economy is not going to recover as quick as the government lies indicate. During that time, the dollar will be worthless, while people will place even greater value on precious metals. The junk silver I have will be highly desirable during that period, possibly being over-valued by as much as 300% (right now a silver dime is worth a cheap loaf of bread, it could be worth a gallon of gas in that crisis period).

It would be prudent to have a few thousand dollars on hand, and 10-15k worth of junk silver. Then it is all about barter items if things keep spinning down the drain.

But saying gold and silver has no value while trying to retain dollars as a hedge when it will vaporize like flash paper when tshtf seems a bit backwards to me.

Gold and silver have no practical purpose in life, other than it's "rare" and shiny. OK, sure, you can use silver for dishes or something, and gold is nice for electronics, but it's not a practical metal. It's no more or less stable than the dollar that way.

I mean, you can't eat it. You won't be tilling your fields with it. In a true barter economy, it's value is only what someone is willing to trade for it. I'm sorry, but if my kid is starving, and yours is too, you're 1kg gold bar is going to be hard to stomach for your kid, cuz mine is keeping her food. I might trade you for bullets (ie, brass and lead), or something steel (plow, pitchfork, shovel, knife, etc), but gold? Ha! Silver? Ha!

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#263870 - 10/01/13 01:36 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: MartinFocazio]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: MartinFocazio
Originally Posted By: Arney

From the reports I've seen, the number of self-employed people are at historically low levels, so this traditional way of making it on your own has become more difficult for various reasons.

Forbes disagrees...

Ah, how the meaning of words change over time. By "self-employed," I meant starting your own small business.

The Forbes article is talking about the "1099 economy" where many formerly full-time employee positions are replaced with independent contractors. Some professions have always worked this way, but many company offices are full of these independent contractors although you'd never know that they weren't regular employees. They go to one job every day, have a boss, and do everything a regular employee does. As an independent contractor, however, you're even more vulnerable to being fired than a regular employee, don't get benefits or the same pay raises, and you still depend on the whims of your "employer" for having a "job."

That same article does agree that small businesses are having a tough time.
Quote:
While the economy has been miserable for small business, and many larger ones as well, the ranks of the self-employed have been growing.


Just did a quick Google search and this was one of the first articles to come up:
Quote:
...the startup numbers are truly striking: In 1987, 13 percent of all American firms were new launches. By 2010, for the first time on record, the startup rate had fallen to an all-time low of less than 8 percent, according to data released Wednesday by the Census Bureau and the Kauffman Foundation. In the early 80s, almost 50 percent of firms were five years old or younger. In 2010, that number had fallen to 35.

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#263875 - 10/01/13 02:03 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Arney]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
"So non-essential personnel are going to be told to stay home, if I read the local news correctly. And why are we paying non-essential personnel - think about it. Just a thought."

Among the "non-essential" personnel are FAA safety inspectors. Good luck on your next flight
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#263876 - 10/01/13 02:16 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: Arney]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The sun is rising this morning and the weather is still on. Those must be essential services. More seriously, I wonder who is furloughed at FEMA and what the response would be to something like a major earthquake or a hurricane during the shutdown.

I would hope that the 200+ folks still on duty at the Rim fire are still on duty (and getting paid).
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Geezer in Chief

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#263877 - 10/01/13 02:18 PM Re: No politics please - Upcoming furlough [Re: hikermor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
"So non-essential personnel are going to be told to stay home, if I read the local news correctly. And why are we paying non-essential personnel - think about it. Just a thought."

There's no guarantee that workers told to stay home will ever be paid for that time off. That's totally up to Congress. During the last shutdown, they were paid their backpay but like I said, that's not guaranteed.

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