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#263414 - 09/09/13 05:37 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: Nomad]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Just thinking thru the 'overhearing the hams' scenario- if hams are on the HF bands then they are most likely using SSB for voice.

I expect that most 'prepper grade' SW receivers don't receive SSB.(haven't done the survey - just a hunch)

Might be worth considering switching to AM mode for nets for just that reason. Won't help the band crowding but would certainly make it easier for the non-ham public to listen.

(Dang! I've been licensed 42 years now! )

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#263415 - 09/09/13 05:46 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: unimogbert]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Sony ICF-SW7600GR AM/FM Shortwave World Band Receiver
Quote:
PLL digital tuner receives FM, MW/AM, SSB, shortwave and longwave ...
... SSB (Single Side Band) reception allows for fine tuning and optimum multi-mode reception with reduced interference on the narrow AM band, for better overall sound. Use the fine 1kHz step tuning for fast, precise station reception by tuning at 1kHz intervals....


I have a version of this radio that I bought in 1987. Excellent receiver.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#263418 - 09/09/13 11:52 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: Russ]
Outdoor_Quest Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 305
Loc: Central Oregon
Nomad,

Do you have a website that does a great job of discussiong the pros and cons of the J-pole antenna?

Blake

www.outdoorquest.blogspot.com

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#263422 - 09/10/13 02:07 AM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: Outdoor_Quest]
Nomad Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 493
Loc: Just wandering around.
Re: J-pole antenna.

One expert in J-poles is Dr. Edison Fong of USC Berkley (I think). He teaches graduate level electronics and has his students make (and sell) a very good J-pole dual band antenna. Cost in the neighborhood of $20-29...don't remember. Profit goes to his students for additional projects.

He has published several very good articles on J-poles. Most j-poles made by folks are not very good. it is a complex antenna and the materials are integral to the tuning. There is a great deal of variability in those materials. If not compensated for, the results are poor.

I was talking with him yesterday in reference to my seminar and he told me about the research he has done in his quest for a good J-pole.

I suggest you google his name and track down the article. I think most are in QST (an amateur journal) but available on the net.

If you are interested in obtaining one, you can either "bid" on e-bay, but I don't know how it is posted, or contact him at his email edison_fong at hotmail dot com

He makes several versions. One that is designed to fit inside of a certain RF transparent PVC pipe (not all pipes will work) for self supporting applications and another that rolls up.

Electrically they are somewhat different. He will also tune to specific frequencies if needed. I have two, one on the amateur frequencies and one on MURS-GMRS.

In the article, pay particular attention to the gain figures. it is not a gain antenna, although it will certainly out perform a rubber flex antenna.

If you get one, I suggest also getting the extension coax. Really, you can not beat the price and each one is tested by is grad students.

If you want a J-pole I obviously recommend his.

I have spent the last few days writing a section about antennas and antenna gain vs coax length. How high a mast is high enough and what are the trade off's between height, coax loss and antenna gain. It is a complex subject.

Probably more than you wanted to know....

Nomad
aka Ron, N1AHH
http://tinyurl/GDC-/welcome
_________________________
...........From Nomad.........Been "on the road" since '97

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#263428 - 09/10/13 12:46 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: Nomad]
JPickett Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
"Probably more than you wanted to know"
No, but it depresses me to think of the coursework I'll have to master before that's more than goblin speech.

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#263430 - 09/10/13 01:36 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: JPickett]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: JPickett
"Probably more than you wanted to know"
No, but it depresses me to think of the coursework I'll have to master before that's more than goblin speech.


If you're referring to the posting above-

Like most things you'll find that if you just focus your attention a little, it's not nearly as difficult as it looks at first.

You're giving up far too easily for someone in a survival forum.


(I can't see the dissertation link. Blocked at work.)





Edited by unimogbert (09/10/13 01:38 PM)
Edit Reason: clarify

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#263435 - 09/10/13 01:54 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: Pete]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Quote:
In the event that the "grid" really does go down for America, or some part of America, there is going to be a LOT of confusion and anxiety out there. Not to mention very wild rumors (mostly wrong), and people thinking "apocalypse". The public reaction could be an over-reaction, to put it mildly.


I watched a drama called 'Blackout' on the Telebox last night, very entertaining and completely dismisses the idea that in the event of an 'Grid Down Emergency' the British will not panic, make a nice cup of tea or Horlicks, go to bed and assess the situation in the morning. laugh

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/blackout/4od

The London unprepared Prepper also needed to get himself a new more grateful family. wink

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#263436 - 09/10/13 01:56 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: unimogbert]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I'll bet it's just that the skill set to master the complexities of a J-pole antenna (which I wouldn't know from a K-pole) are a long ways from those required to build a fire in the pouring rain and gnaw on a roasted rat.

I sympathize, because I am more of the "Me, Igor. Me build fire" type..

But that is precisely what is valuable about this forum.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#263438 - 09/10/13 03:05 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: hikermor]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I'll bet it's just that the skill set to master the complexities of a J-pole antenna (which I wouldn't know from a K-pole) are a long ways from those required to build a fire in the pouring rain and gnaw on a roasted rat.

I sympathize, because I am more of the "Me, Igor. Me build fire" type..

But that is precisely what is valuable about this forum.



Actually the similarities are more than you might think.

There's no need to actually "master" the Jpole for survival. That's kind of like debating the virtues of fatwood vs. vaseline cotton balls for friction firestarting when the 90% solution is to carry a Bic and some waterproof matches in a matchsafe and your supply of TP in a ziplock.

Knowing to put a chunk of wire up high and in the clear is most of it. Tuning the antenna with simple instruments is almost all the rest of it.

Be glad for those who are fascinated with whatever it is because they will improve the product and give the rest of us a simple formula (eventually, if we can persuade them to speak English when they explain) that the rest of us can just apply as needed.

Just don't be too put off by what you need to know to apply as needed. Children have taken the highest level ham tests and passed - even in the days of 20 words per minute Morse code.

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#263441 - 09/10/13 06:43 PM Re: Grid Down Communications. [Re: hikermor]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
There is a major difference between the two subjects.
If you did not master the skills of building a fire in wet conditions, you wont have a fire and have to eat the rat raw. Maybe you wont even have the rat to roast if you did not master trapping one.
A J-pole antenna can be build for a few bucks from simple materials and all the skill you need is soldering. It may lack some gain but it´s still going to work. I built one in less than 30 minutes. It allowed me to get connections at about 60 miles with good rapports. The antenna and the feeding cable roll up to a nice package that fit into my pants pocket.
If you are interested go ahead and try. You can improve later.
_________________________
If it isn´t broken, it doesn´t have enough features yet.

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