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#255585 - 01/17/13 04:44 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: Ian]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 474
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: Ian
I was a little involved in the setting the new warning levels for weather in the UK introduced because people were confused with the old ones. now it looks as if the new system is not understood properly and is getting confused with other incident alerting systems.

WEATHER Alert Levels go:
Green, No Severe Weather
Yellow, Be Aware
Amber, Be Prepared
Red, Take Action

Red as a WEATHER alert is NOT a national emergency, I don't know where that has come from. Please read: Weather Warning Levels

There is another, different system used to inform health care and social services of the possible effects of long durations of COLD so hospital care may be prepared and provision made to look after the old and vulnerable. This involves a mix of temperature and duration to trigger the alerts which trigger the national 'Cold Weather Plan' responses.
UK Cold Weather Plan
Although it is not restricted in any way it is not really for public use, just local government and emergency services.


The red warning of severe weather is indeed not a national emergency, as you point out. It is basicly advice from the weather service that severe weather is expected and that action is required, not just pre-planing.
A red warning for bad weather has just been issued, correctly in my view, for parts of Wales.

However in the second document linked to above, the cold weather action plan, they refer to the highest state of alert as being a national emergency. Such conditions have not yet been declared, and probably wont be.

One may see how confusion could occur.

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#255625 - 01/18/13 07:06 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: adam2]
K9medic Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 14
Loc: UK
I followed the Met Office advice not to travel without additional warm clothing, blankets, snow shovel, warm drinks and food, snow chains, tow rope, rock salt etc........ I didn't half look a prat on the bus! blush

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#255893 - 01/27/13 01:18 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: RNewcomb]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: RNewcomb
But then I realized they probably are not used to this, and don't have the equiptment or the plans to deal with this every year...
Yeah; it's economies of scale. We mostly don't think it's worth spending a lot of money on equipment that'll only be used for 2 or 3 weeks a year, if that. However, these policies are getting reviewed as extreme weather seems to be getting more common. They ran out of grit for the roads a couple of years back, to much public embarrassment.

Now the cold weather is mostly gone and we're getting quite concerned about floods again. We had virtual drought and hosepipe bans in March last year, then rain more or less non-stop since, with lots of floods. Now the accumulated snow is melting, there is going to be more water.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#255895 - 01/27/13 05:44 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Lots of places don't have equipment for it. Where I live, we had 2 inches come down during rush hour on Friday afternoon. Took me 3 hours to get home - 23 miles. The problem is that it was 28 out, so of course everything just ice'd up. NO, repeat, NO, trucks out salting the roads or anything else. I passed 3 cars in ditches, 2 accidents, and one guy who was blocking the 2 lanes of traffic as he sat perpendicular to it, spinning his tires, trying to get out of the way.

Funny, b/c about 3 years ago we got about 8 inches, and that was handled much better.

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#255902 - 01/27/13 08:12 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: Brangdon]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
We mostly don't think it's worth spending a lot of money on equipment that'll only be used for 2 or 3 weeks a year, if that.


Here in Anne Arundel County (USA) there is a similar problem--the state and county can not afford the manpower and equipment to be able to handle the occasional big snows. So they don't. They contract it out.

There are a lot of landscaping companies, farmers, and just guys with trucks with equipment that can be used/adapted for snow removal. So the county sets up contracts with these folks to clear specific roads to specific conditions in specific time frames. The county then only has to keep a check on them.

Landscape companies like it because winter is their slow season and they have equipment sitting around doing nothing. Farmers like it because their tractors etc. are not being used and there is not much for them to do. Guys with trucks like it because it is extra dollars.

Setting up a 4x4 pickup or other truck with a plow is not all that expensive.

For the county, no snow=no cost. For the vendors, snow = $$
So, in the summer, the farmers pray for rain, and in the winter, for snow.

It seems to work for everyone. A fleet of goverment owned and operated equipment does not seem to be necessary to deal with the problem.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#255911 - 01/28/13 12:55 AM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: bws48]
Treeseeker Offline
Member

Registered: 03/29/12
Posts: 189
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: bws48
[Road clearing] They contract it out.


They do the same in New Hampshire.

I was visiting my sister there and it was snowing heavily one night. When I awoke early the next morning my sister's large circular driveway was completely clear. I asked her about it and she told me that she also contracts the same guy the county uses for road clearing so he just does her driveway when passing down the road.

Gee, and I thought is was magic.

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#255927 - 01/28/13 12:36 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: Treeseeker]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Treeseeker
Originally Posted By: bws48
[Road clearing] They contract it out.


They do the same in New Hampshire.

I was visiting my sister there and it was snowing heavily one night. When I awoke early the next morning my sister's large circular driveway was completely clear. I asked her about it and she told me that she also contracts the same guy the county uses for road clearing so he just does her driveway when passing down the road.

Gee, and I thought is was magic.


I've seen both - in Detroit, it's gov. managed. In places like Missouri, seemed to be a mix of city/county/contract. The gov. cleans the highways and main streets, the contracted guys get the parking lots, small side streets, people's drive ways, etc. In Philadelphia, the trash trucks have snow plow attachments and salting buckets bolted to the back end, so they do double duty. No one gets trash picked up that day, but I didn't hear lots of complaints.

Agreed, that it's probably the most cost effective, if you're in an area that doesn't get much.

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#255945 - 01/28/13 05:00 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: MDinana]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: MDinana
I passed 3 cars in ditches, 2 accidents, and one guy who was blocking the 2 lanes of traffic as he sat perpendicular to it, spinning his tires, trying to get out of the way.

Funny, b/c about 3 years ago we got about 8 inches, and that was handled much better.
My vehicle handles the snow/ice darn well,BUT like in many cases,its the 'other guy' who does you in.

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#256192 - 02/04/13 05:12 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: bws48]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: bws48
They contract it out.
That does happen here, although probably on a much smaller scale, and not for clearing airports or rail tracks. Mostly we rely on gritting, which I guess needs different equipment.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#256206 - 02/04/13 11:21 PM Re: One level below UK National Emergency Alert [Re: Brangdon]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Albany NY in the seventies contracted snow plowing out to the same company that did refuse removal, leading to the vision of plow-equipped garbage trucks patrolling the tundra.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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