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#260238 - 05/03/13 02:27 AM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Anonymous]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7326
Loc: southern Cal
You make an excellent point about allergies. Allergic reactions are the reason that honey bees kill more people year in and year out than rattlesnakes. The typical annual score is something like 50 (bees) to 12 (rattlesnakes).
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Geezer in Chief

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#260241 - 05/03/13 05:14 AM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
Phaedrus Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2723
Loc: Big Sky Country
I also avoid harming snakes where I can. The only times I'll ever kill one is if it's in or close to my house, or if I can't shoe it out of my campsite.

I'm dubious of the efficacy of "sucking out the venom" with a kit. Supposedly the newer Sawyer is actually worthwhile, but probably more for wasp and ant bites than snake bites.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#260245 - 05/03/13 01:02 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
LesSnyder Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1633
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
I guess a lot depends upon where you grew up, and currently live... down here the Eastern Diamondback and especially the more aggressive Cottonmouth Moccasin used to be plentiful...before the construction boom in the 70's it was pretty common to find rattlers in the neighborhood, especially in Gopher Tortoise holes... a 2nd grade classmate lost an arm to a diamondback bite in 1955... I don't understand the argument if a $12 item can reduce possible tremendous tissue damage from a hemotoxic bite...

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#260247 - 05/03/13 03:50 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Anonymous]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 495
That's one opinion, Snake_doctor. With respect: There are a great many opinions (and numerous threads on this site)and there are studies which don't agree with you. In the OP's link I'm not persuaded by "the doctors said" that if the patient hadn't extracted venom he wouldn't be alive. Doctors say a lot of things shooting from the hip.

I'm still open to read objective studies that show these pumps or extractors remove enough venom to make any difference in outcome. By objective... I mean not done by the companies who sell the product.Until then, I'll stay away from these devices.


Edited by NAro (05/03/13 03:52 PM)

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#260261 - 05/03/13 11:13 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
jshannon Offline
Addict

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 585
Loc: North Texas
Don't believe it.

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#260271 - 05/04/13 12:29 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2196
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Doesn't DR say somewhere on the main site that the Sawyer kit works, if it's within a short period of time?

I've looked it up before, but no real good evidence that it does well.

Then again, it's kind of hard to make a scientific study where you allow people to get bitten, then don't treat them (you need a control group, right?). Plus you can't standardize the dose injected.

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#260273 - 05/04/13 12:40 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: MDinana]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 495
Well, there are studies:
http://www.doctorross.co.za/wp-content/u...d-clin-n-am.pdf

But I have 9 grad students at my disposal and I can find studies that support or disconfirm anything. So this is only FWIW.

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#260369 - 05/08/13 02:53 AM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 477
Snakebite suction devices don't remove venom: they just suck.

haha


Funny, I posted this same article here in 2005.
Not sure of any studies to refute this one in the last few years, but please correct me if you have something that shows it works. This says they don't.




Suction for venomous snakebite: a study of "mock venom" extraction in a human model.
Ann Emerg Med 2004 Feb;43(2):181-6 (ISSN: 1097-6760)
Alberts MB; Shalit M; Lo Galbo F
Department of Emergency Medicine, University Medical Center, University of California, San Francisco, Fresno 93702, USA.

STUDY OBJECTIVE: We determine the percentage of mock venom recovered by a suction device (Sawyer Extractor pump) in a simulated snakebite in human volunteers. METHODS: A mock venom (1 mL normal saline solution, 5.0 mg albumin, 2.5 mg aggregated albumin) radioactively labeled with 1 mCi of technetium was injected with a curved 16-gauge hypodermic needle 1 cm into the right lateral lower leg of 8 supine male volunteers aged 28 to 51 years. The Sawyer Extractor pump was applied after a 3-minute delay, and the blood removed by suction was collected after an additional 15 minutes. A 1991 Siemens Diacam was used to take measurements of the radioactive counts extracted and those remaining in the leg and body. RESULTS: The "envenomation load," as measured by mean radioactivity in the leg after injection, was 89,895 counts/min. The mean radioactivity found in the blood extracted in the 15 minutes of suction was 38.5 counts/min (95% confidence interval [CI] -33 to 110 counts/min), representing 0.04% of the envenomation load. The postextraction leg count was less than the envenomation load by 1,832 counts/min (95% CI -3,863 to 200 counts/min), representing a 2.0% decrease in the total body venom load. CONCLUSION: The Sawyer Extractor pump removed bloody fluid from our simulated snakebite wounds but removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite.


Edited by duckear (05/08/13 02:54 AM)

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#260382 - 05/08/13 10:29 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: Tyber]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
I used a CUTTER brand on an infection on my sons knee once.I took him to the doctor after I saw how much it removed. The culture later showed it to be MRSA type.The doctor said suction was a very good idea.Squeezing can spread the infection encapsulation(sp) out under the skin making it worse.At the follow up appointment it was healing faster than expected.The doctor gave credit to the snake bite kit for this.Try to find more than one use for any thing.....


BOATMAN
John

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#260385 - 05/08/13 11:59 PM Re: $10 snake bite kit saves hunters life? [Re: duckear]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Unfortunately, all of the studies I've seen only prove that it doesn't work if you don't follow the directions.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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