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#260111 - 04/30/13 06:24 PM Bad math: one is not none
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2122
I see the importance of back-ups, but advocating things that are untrue just sound silly.

"One is none, two is one"

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#260115 - 04/30/13 06:44 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
Tjin Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/08/02
Posts: 1657
Redundancy can be very useful. However too much means too heavy, to bulky, less stable packs, more energy spend to carry everything, etc.

As disaster preparedness turn to hobby, just like any hobbies; you get to much stuff you don't need...
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#260116 - 04/30/13 06:48 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
I do not buy into the idea that I need two of everything, but there are some basics that it probably makes sense to have a backup for.

Of course, some things are just too big and bulky to make that practical even if it was desirable.
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#260119 - 04/30/13 07:05 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Well, "one is none" is not math, it's basically distilling a principle. It pertains more to Murphy's Law than math. And for anything which you consider critical (however you define "critical"), then it makes perfect sense.

If you consider fire starting critical, then having only one method available that can break, be lost, malfunction, get wet, etc. totally deprives you of that critical function. Depending on the conditions (including your own physical condition) you may have no other options besides what you brought with you.

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#260120 - 04/30/13 07:13 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 839
Loc: Colorado
The saying makes an easy way to remember that things go wrong and that you should plan for that and have alternatives for the most important things.

Consider it a thumbrule rather than a mantra. Don't read more into it than that.

Some people seem to be completely unaware that things go wrong.

The older I get the more amazed I am that anything goes right!

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#260121 - 04/30/13 07:21 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: Arney]
Montanero Online   content
Old Hand

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1051
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Arney
Well, "one is none" is not math, it's basically distilling a principle. It pertains more to Murphy's Law than math. And for anything which you consider critical (however you define "critical"), then it makes perfect sense.

If you consider fire starting critical, then having only one method available that can break, be lost, malfunction, get wet, etc. totally deprives you of that critical function. Depending on the conditions (including your own physical condition) you may have no other options besides what you brought with you.


Yes, to all of it.

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#260122 - 04/30/13 07:42 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
The way some people on the 'net are about sharps, you'd think the phrase was "five is one, one is none"...

Originally Posted By: Arney
It pertains more to Murphy's Law than math.


Good point. There have been plenty of times when things did not go wrong for me, but an awareness of Murphy's Law kept me vigilant to the risk.

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#260123 - 04/30/13 07:51 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: Arney]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3542
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Arney
Well, "one is none" is not math, it's basically distilling a principle. It pertains more to Murphy's Law than math. And for anything which you consider critical (however you define "critical"), then it makes perfect sense.

If you consider fire starting critical, then having only one method available that can break, be lost, malfunction, get wet, etc. totally deprives you of that critical function. Depending on the conditions (including your own physical condition) you may have no other options besides what you brought with you.


What he said.

"One is none and two is one" is not meant to be taken literally as math, nor is it an untruth. Of course one is one and not none. It's a principle of preparedness that encourages us to have backup for critical items. One is better than none, but that one can fail you, quite easily sometimes. Having redundancy in some places just makes sense.

Further, it encourages us to carry two different methods to achieve each goal. Lighters rock, for example. They're excellent fire starting tools, but if your fingers are frozen or you run out of fuel, you might have better luck with a ferro rod. Or vice versa. A ferro rod will give you 1,000 fires even if it gets wet, but maybe you need a more instantaneous fire like a Zippo can provide be cause you fell in the icy creek and don't have time to spend with your tinder.

If you don't agree with the theory, that's fine too. Some of us overdo it sometimes, and I could well be the president of the club, but better IMO to have it and not need it than the other way around. The only person that has to carry my pack is me and it's up to me to prioritize my needs. I ask for feedback, looking for new ideas to save weight/space and to identify gaps, and it's always an interesting process. Some people say I have too much fire and not enough fire power, as an example, or not enough electronics but too many lights. I listen, think, and adjust as I see fit. In the end, it's up to me. If you want to carry only singles of everything, go for it. We'll hopefully never need it anyway, but my redundancies make me feel better and I'm happy to carry them, practice with them, and try to figure out how to improve on them.
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#260124 - 04/30/13 08:04 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: Tjin]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3542
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tjin
Redundancy can be very useful. However too much means too heavy, to bulky, less stable packs, more energy spend to carry everything, etc.

As disaster preparedness turn to hobby, just like any hobbies; you get to much stuff you don't need...


True. The best way to address this problem, IMO, is to get out there and really test your gear and yourself. Test your kit setup. Try new things. Find what works best for you, and always be on the lookout for ways to improve. The biggest investment you need to make is time. Experience is the best teacher. Don't let your gear or you collect dust!
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Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#260136 - 04/30/13 10:16 PM Re: Bad math: one is not none [Re: TeacherRO]
boatman Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/10/03
Posts: 424
Loc: Michigan
Fire is a good example of backups.I carry a BIC lighter as my primary fire starter.I also carry a ferro rod (LMF army model) as my second means of fire.I also have a SPARKLITE in my kit.It is there if ONE of my TWO hands becomes injured it can be used ONE handed.The SPARKLITE is small and liteweight it is not an issue to bring it along.The ferro rod can be used as an night time signal device.That is the method I use, is it important enough or can it be used for more than purpose.....


BOATMAN
John

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