Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#259968 - 04/26/13 07:36 PM Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks
Michael2 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 83
Haven't seen this mentioned yet:

Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks

I'm curious what others think, since it seems that the people that didn't follow what I thought were the general rules (stay together, stay with boat) ended up surviving better.

This may simply be an example of the fact that chance plays a role in survival just as judgement does. You can do everything wrong and end up OK, and you can do everything right and not survive.

Were the survivors just lucky in this case? Or is there an argument that they made the right decision to swim for it?



Edited by Michael2 (04/26/13 07:37 PM)

Top
#259971 - 04/26/13 08:20 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Michael2]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I have a sense that these two were much stronger swimmers than the article mentions. Generally staying near where the mayday call would have SAR looking is the thing to do, but so is having survival gear and being dressed for the environment. Since there was no boat or liferaft to stay in, if you are in the water you may as well go for it.

There's a reason PLB's are waterproof.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#259975 - 04/26/13 10:57 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
They apparently had no signaling gear either with them or attached to the floatation. That would have made a huge difference. Everyone was very lucky, all around.

They were very fortunate to be in warm water. Their life expectancy off the coast here in southern California would have been about an hour,unless they would hve been wearing wetsuits; their are cases of wetsuited survivors lasting for more than 24 hours.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#260026 - 04/28/13 08:15 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Russ]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Russ
so is having survival gear and being dressed for the environment.
They were wearing lifejackets by the time they were in the water. She was wearing a swimming costume and a sun-dress, which sounds appropriate to me. They abandoned most of their clothes to swim better.

It sounds like they got to land after 14 hours, and the crew got rescued after 23. It also seems like they could see land when the conditions were right. If I could see land, I'd find it hard to resist the temptation to swim for it. It's hard to spot people in water; they mention a helicopter missing both them and the crew.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

Top
#260027 - 04/28/13 09:22 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Michael2]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
In my opinion they were extremely lucky. The usual advice to stay together and stay with the boat is appropriate in almost all cases (exception noted below).

The article indicates captain had managed to send a Mayday with coordinates. It is very difficult for rescuers to spot people in the water from the air or from another boat, but a group of four people is always easier to spot than one or even two people. Also, even if the boat sinks there will usually be some amount of floating debris that also aids spotting by rescuers. Perhaps had they all stayed together they might have all been spotted sooner?

As noted by hikermor, cold water is also an issue. With a life jacket, by remaining still and huddling in a group you increase your survival time. When swimming, you usually cool quicker. Even though your muscles put out heat from the exercise, you are constantly flushing cold water over your body. The net effect is that in most cases you cool quicker.

Note that "Soon after, they also lost sight of land amid the rain." They could as easily have ended up swimming away from land rather than towards it. Also, even a slight amount of current could have carried them further from their destination.

All in all they were extemely lucky, in my opinion. About the only situation where swimming for land might be the best choice is when there is little or no possibility of rescue. If you are out by yourself, in a seldom traveled area, and left no word with anyone about your plans so no rescue will be launched, then it might make sense to swim for it. Otherwise, staying with the boat is the best plan.

There will always be a few lucky exceptions, but almost always you have better odds staying with the boat.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#260028 - 04/28/13 10:09 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Michael2]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Per http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/St-Lucia/seatemp, the water temp off St Lucia was about 77 deg F. as I read the chart. What's the survival stats say about survival times in 77 deg water?
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#260031 - 04/28/13 11:04 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
The best I can come up with is a small scale graphic on page 11 of [/u]The Survival Book[u], authored by Paul Nesbitt, Alonzo Pond, and William Allen, 1959. The chart reflects February conditions, and indicates that the victims were in Area F, where the survival period is indefinite and excessive fatigue is the more likely cause of death. Per their map, if you fall overboard, best do it in the tropics, not on the west coast.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#260032 - 04/28/13 11:48 PM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Russ]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Russ
Per http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/St-Lucia/seatemp, the water temp off St Lucia was about 77 deg F. as I read the chart. What's the survival stats say about survival times in 77 deg water?
If memory serves, Dr. Giesbrecht defines cold water as anything below about 20 C (68 F). Survival time (with floatation) varies a lot, depending on body mass, gender, water temperature, etc. See the graph at http://www.coldwaterbootcamp.com/pages/1_10_60v2.html

In the case under discussion, water temperature clearly wasn't a major issue. The mere fact that they survived in the water for 14 hours demonstrates that. However, most places outside the tropics don't have water that warm. For the general case, water temperature is often (or usually?) a significant issue. Water that may be warm enough for a short swim could be lethal with long exposure.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#260034 - 04/29/13 02:21 AM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Russ]
rafowell Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Russ
Per http://www.surf-forecast.com/breaks/St-Lucia/seatemp, the water temp off St Lucia was about 77 deg F. as I read the chart. What's the survival stats say about survival times in 77 deg water?

Essentially, at 77 deg F, hypothermia is not going to be an issue.

77 deg F is 25 deg C, and this chart shows 30 hrs to indefinite for that temperature, even naked: Survival Time in Hours in Cold Water

For colder water, body fat and clothing are big factors - see:
PREDICTED WATER IMMERSION SURVIVAL TIMES FOR ANTI- EXPOSURE ENSEMBLES

This seems to be a good site on the topic: Cold Water Survival


Edited by rafowell (04/29/13 02:46 AM)
Edit Reason: Added link
_________________________
A signal mirror should backup a radio distress signal, like a 406 MHz PLB (ACR PLB) (Ocean Signal PLB)

Top
#260036 - 04/29/13 02:56 AM Re: Tourists swim 14 hours after boat sinks [Re: Michael2]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Interesting site. Thanks, rafowell!
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 238 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Explorer9, GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav
5368 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Corny Jokes
by Jeanette_Isabelle
04/19/24 11:47 PM
People Are Not Paying Attention
by Jeanette_Isabelle
04/19/24 07:49 PM
USCG rescue fishermen frm deserted island
by brandtb
04/17/24 11:35 PM
Silver
by brandtb
04/16/24 10:32 PM
EDC Reduction
by Jeanette_Isabelle
04/16/24 03:13 PM
New York Earthquake
by chaosmagnet
04/09/24 12:27 PM
Bad review of a great backpack..
by Herman30
04/08/24 08:16 AM
Our adorable little earthquake
by Phaedrus
04/06/24 02:42 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.