#259141 - 04/15/13 09:27 PM
Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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On 9/11, DC's cell phone system was overloaded by everyone trying to make calls. Today, Boston police reportedly have the system shut down to prevent any cell-triggered explosive devices from being triggered. Sympathies to those in the chaos at the Boston Marathon, especially the dead and injured (and their families). Very sad day. I've long worried about DC's Marine Corps Marathon being a very soft and extremely attractive terrorist target. Evil was on display today. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/o...ry.html?hpid=z3Official: Cellphone service shut down in Boston to prevent remote detonations of explosivesWASHINGTON — A law enforcement official says cellphone service has been shut down in the Boston area to prevent any potential remote detonations of explosives..
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#259142 - 04/15/13 09:51 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
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Now I'm hearing conflicting reports about whether the cell service was shut down.
Typical early hours of a disaster: "conflicting reports."
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#259147 - 04/15/13 11:29 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Bingley]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Excellent point.
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Geezer in Chief
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#259148 - 04/16/13 12:40 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Dunno, I wasn't there and this is pure speculation...
I wonder if the cell system may have been overloaded due to the Boston Marathon increasing the concentration/density of cell phones; then when the bombs went off everyone was on their phone immediately if they weren't already on -- then the system crashed.
The basic point of the thread is valid regardless, "don't count on cell phones in a crisis".
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??
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#259153 - 04/16/13 02:00 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Addict
Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
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CNET says no deliberate shutdown, just overload, with quotes from Sprint and Verizon, and comments from a CNET employee who participated in the race. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-5757971...s&tag=title
Edited by James_Van_Artsdalen (04/16/13 05:42 AM)
Edit Reason: CNET employee, not Verizon
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#259160 - 04/16/13 02:53 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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My prayers go out for the victims.
Without cell service, your mobile phone may not be a virtual brick. Don't forget most modern mobile phones have the ability to latch unto a local area network (LAN), which is separate from the cell phone service. So, don't forget to try that option in a crisis. Access to a LAN would enable me to burst out an email at least. Also, I think networks like LTE are on different towers than the cell phone.
I'm not saying these other options are super reliable. I'm just saying these are other options to try.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259162 - 04/16/13 02:58 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Member
Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 110
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Depends how you define "crisis".
It seems to me that the main effect of cell phone towers being overloaded/turned off in a situation like this is just inconvenience and isn't really a survival issue.
I guess if you were were in Boston and you were injured and you were somehow away from people so that you needed to use your cell phone to call for help - then the lack of service would be an issue. But I can't think of any alternative that bring assistance given the chaotic scene.
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#259163 - 04/16/13 02:59 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Member
Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
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So sad, my thoughts and prayers to those injured and their loved ones.
If it was turned off or overloaded then two choices are to try to find a land line or WiFi hot spot.
-I had to use both methods after hurricane sandy to communicate with my loved ones because so many cell towers were down and the remainder overloaded.
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#259172 - 04/16/13 07:47 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Quietly_Learning]
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Stranger
Registered: 04/03/13
Posts: 1
Loc: Washington
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According to a few interviews on the news, people were able to text on their cellphones even when they couldn't make calls.
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#259173 - 04/16/13 08:55 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Addict
Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
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And you can send emails with text message too, best to know how your carrier handles this before hand.
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#259177 - 04/16/13 02:30 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: jzmtl]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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The thought of authorities shutting down the towers seems like it would do more harm than good. There would be a very slight chance of preventing a remote activation of a bomb, while there would be a 100% chance of hindering at least some emergency operations. Plus, the authorities would open themselves up for many expensive civil lawsuits for years to come. Lawyers would have a field day. There would be at least a few victims (maybe even dead victims) who would receive severely delayed medical care as a foreseeable result of not being able to communicate how the victims otherwise could have. And you can send emails with text message too, best to know how your carrier handles this before hand. Interesting, I only know about the other way around (sending text via email). I'll have to learn what you mentioned. ...easy, thanks.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259179 - 04/16/13 03:30 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ireckon]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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Texting (without pictures) is always preferable in that kind of situation. Text messages take very little band width. When the system is overloaded and/or signal strenght is poor, you can often get a text message through when voice is hopeless. And since you are using less bandwidth yourself, you make more available for others. A win-win.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz
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#259187 - 04/16/13 06:57 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
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Dagny - thanks for posting. Very good piece of info.
It's sensible that the police would want to shut down cell phones. I wonder how "specific" such a shutdown is ... how localized is the area where the phones do not work? That would be interesting to know.
Also, it seems like if cell phone service is shut off then texts and calls would both be unavailable. Maybe there is something that I do not understand. Can they just shut down calls, but still enable texts??
Pete2
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#259188 - 04/16/13 07:05 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Pete]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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A text requires a very limited amount of connectivity. So, a mobile phone can reach out and get a crappy connection to a cell tower that's a farther distance away, while close towers are shutdown. It doesn't matter that the connection is distant and crappy because the data being transmitted is a quick burst of text.
Anyway, I really would like to know the definitive answer to what the authorities did. I maintain what I said above.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259191 - 04/16/13 07:36 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Addict
Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
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Text messages, aka SMS, are sent differently than data or voice, so even if voice calls don't get through or you can't access your facebook home page to request rescue, it's worth trying an SMS.
SMS and data in particular are protected from garbling and static. There's less danger of someone mis-hearing something important.
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#259250 - 04/17/13 02:44 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Blast]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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Don't rely on landlines, either. When hurricane Ike decimated Houston the landlines that weren't taken out by trees were commandeered by emergency services. We didn't have phone service of any type (cell or landline) for ten days and even texts took up to 24 hours to be sent.
-Blast Was the Internet working for anybody? Cable or satellite?
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259253 - 04/17/13 03:45 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
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an old Princess or push button digital phone and one of these RJ11 to alligator clip adapters might be a good addition to your car supplies, in case you need to "borrow" telephone service... connect the red and green... http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314xcyJJekL.jpg
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#259256 - 04/17/13 04:01 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Pete]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
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Can they just shut down calls, but still enable texts?? Cell phone service uses different radio frequencies (or "channels") for different functions. One channel is a control channel that is used to ring your phone, notify you that you have a new voicemail, etc. The control channel is also used for carrying text messages. The actual voice call is carried on a separate channel. Data is usually another channel. So, it's possible to block just the voice channel and allow text messages by just turning off the voice channel, but that would seem to defeat the purpose of blocking remote bomb activation. A text message could just as easily trigger a cell phone-activated bomb as a voice call. Sounds more like the voice channels were simply overwhelmed with too many calls, making voice calls impossible but still allowing text messages and data traffic through on the other channels.
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#259261 - 04/17/13 04:48 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1680
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
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a comment on a much smaller scale interruptions... a few years ago, our school had 3+ hour building evacuation due to a prank bomb threat... once the local TV news helicopter appeared overhead.. both the school switchboard and the local county 911 call center were overloaded by anxious parents... it doesn't take that much to delay a response...
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#259282 - 04/17/13 11:50 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ireckon]
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INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
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Was the Internet working for anybody? Cable or satellite?
Good question. I know some people had cable tv systems running off generators but I never thought to ask about their internet connections. -Blast
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#259283 - 04/17/13 11:57 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ireckon]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Don't rely on landlines, either. When hurricane Ike decimated Houston the landlines that weren't taken out by trees were commandeered by emergency services. We didn't have phone service of any type (cell or landline) for ten days and even texts took up to 24 hours to be sent.
-Blast Was the Internet working for anybody? Cable or satellite? I wondered about this today too. When a disaster happens, the phone lines get jammed with people calling to check in. Sending emails seems like it should be another option if you have the ability. I suppose though, that internet speeds could be crashed too, if there's too much demand. That used to happen with us with another carrier right after the dinner hour EVERY night, no special circumstances to increase the demand.
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#259297 - 04/18/13 04:00 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ireckon]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
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Ireckon, please elaborate for we who are old and not so tech savvy, how does one use a smartphone to access a LAN or other network?
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#259299 - 04/18/13 04:22 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: acropolis5]
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Member
Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 164
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Ireckon, please elaborate for we who are old and not so tech savvy, how does one use a smartphone to access a LAN or other network? If you are using an android phone the screens might differ slightly based upon your version but basically: Click settings (Turn on WiFi if it is off) Click wireless & networks Click setup and manage WiFi access points Enable the phone to tell you when there is an open network Click on any network without a lock next to it. The phone will access the network. On some open networks once you go online you will need to select ok in the terms of use. In the phone's preset widgets you can enable the toggle that will turn on/off your phones WiFi network.
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#259302 - 04/18/13 07:45 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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Yes, what he said. Also, by LAN, I also mean Hotspot. On iPhone, it's in the Settings.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259316 - 04/18/13 01:55 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
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My parents looked into a satalite internet service a while abck and the one they were looking at used the phone line for outgoing data and satalite for incoming so it wouldn't have worked when the phone lines were out for two months after hurricane Sandy. They are starting to look again to see whats available.
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#259321 - 04/18/13 03:30 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
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[quote=Eugene]
General it's a rip off. People who lived in rural areas HAD to get it because it was the only option. Now with the cellular technology of 4G/LTE you can just get a Hotspot that your computer links to and it's faster than some landline internet connections. It's cheaper than Satellite.
They are rural so cell speed is 1x, no 3g or 4g coverage (actually no official coverage but 1x speed works). I was looking into cellular before until the carries did away with the unlimited data plans now its not feasable at all.
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#259322 - 04/18/13 04:01 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Eugene]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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I was looking into cellular before until the carries did away with the unlimited data plans now its not feasable at all. Anyway, I actually do NOT want a carrier that advertises unlimited data. It's a crock. Nobody can offer their entire customer base unlimited data at a reasonably fast speed for everybody. Any carrier who advertises unlimited data is absolutely throttling that data. It's better for the carrier to be honest upfront. For example, T-mobile currently advertises plans with "unlimited data" and 500 GB of high-speed data. That basically means you're guaranteed 500 GB of data transmission at a certain speed. (You will use that up FAST with Internet phone calls or video.) Then, T-mobile will definitely throttle any additional data. The throttling is dependent on (1) how much other data is passing through the T-mobile network and (2) how much other data is more important than your "OK to throttle" data. Throttled data gives me a headache. I'd rather pay a premium for data to be transmitted at a guaranteed minimum speed.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259325 - 04/18/13 04:18 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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Anyway, I actually do NOT want a carrier that advertises unlimited data. It's a crock. Nobody can offer their entire customer base unlimited data at a reasonably fast speed for everybody. Any carrier who advertises unlimited data is absolutely throttling that data. It's better for the carrier to be honest upfront. I actually have totally fully unlimited data on my AT&T plan. And it's never throttled. But I am the exception. I've had an account with them going back to 1992 through my parents. Long before they were Cingular and long before Lucent. I spun off onto my own plan years ago and managed to keep all the incentives long time customers get. Basically if you're a long time customer with X amount of years and X amount of rollover minutes from back in the day, you can cash all that in. A dirty little secret the guys at the AT&T store don't know about or bother to tell you about. Thankfully I have a friend who works in their main Orlando offices. I pay 84.94 a month. Unlimited everything. And that's with an iPhone 5 that's pulling 40 megabits a second over the LTE. Only thing they want me to pay extra for is the hot spot option where I can use the phone's connection for my internet connection on my iMac. Which is absurd since...I am already using that data and quite a lot out of it on the phone itself. Yes, you are an exception. The vast majority of people will get frustrated and waste a lot of their life thinking they can get that. Also, like I said, throttled data depends on factors I said above. If their networks get congested where you operate, they will have no choice but to set priorities on data. It's just math. They can't have everybody going fast. If push comes to shove, then they must put your "unlimited data" at a lower priority than the folks who are paying for a guaranteed speed. In fact, your priority is already lower. It's just that your network is currently not congested where you are.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#259329 - 04/18/13 05:54 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
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I'm on a grandfathered unlimited as well. The big issue with my parents is signing them up for a new account they would get limited. So then they have to watch their usage to stay under the limit or go over the limit and pay the extra $.
That itsself is a hassle, espically when web sites think they need flash and videos and are designed for uncapped networks. Its hard enough to stay under a limit on a phone let alone on a computer. My wife has went over her 4G limit a couple times.
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#259359 - 04/19/13 01:27 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Snake_Doctor
Unregistered
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An old smart phone could be loaded up with a lot of info, records pics and other data which could be taken instead of the bulkier papers,disks, etc or a laptop in a bug out. And it's a lot easier to conceal. Not good for calls, but might save the day after the crises.
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#259372 - 04/19/13 02:37 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ]
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Addict
Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
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Not good for calls, but might save the day after the crises. Doesn't the FCC require that carriers always connect 911 calls, even from cell phones with no service agreement in place? I still have a couple of now-replaced cell phones I could use for 911 if this is true.
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#259406 - 04/19/13 01:06 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
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Thats not somehting required on cell phones, the gps location is what required on phones after 2006. Any phone is required to be able to call 911. However the carriers also received permission to discontinue analog so that old startac from 1998 won't be able to get a signal to make the call.
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#259424 - 04/19/13 04:17 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Old Hand
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
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This is a very interesting first hand account from one of the ham radio operators who volunteer to man communications along the Boston Marathon route (this is also replicated across almost every US marathon as well). It shows the level of professionalism common in comm teams. Its especially interesting because aside from the tragedy of the bombs and those victims, the rest of the race had a dilemma, which was thousands of runners who hadn't finished the race but who had to stop and inevitably begin to cool down in their runners clothing. Where do they go? http://w3atb.com/66-boston-marathon-2013-bombs-carnage-and-amateur-radio-operators Another vote for getting your ham license and helping out.
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#260007 - 04/28/13 12:43 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Lono]
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Addict
Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
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<snip> Another vote for getting your ham license and helping out. And with the Baofung handhelds out there, it has never been cheaper to jump in.
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#260017 - 04/28/13 03:25 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
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What's a good website for getting into ham?
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If you're reading this, it's too late.
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#260023 - 04/28/13 05:30 PM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: Dagny]
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Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3821
Loc: USA
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#260035 - 04/29/13 02:51 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: ]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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An old smart phone could be loaded up with a lot of info, records pics and other data which could be taken instead of the bulkier papers,disks, etc or a laptop in a bug out. And it's a lot easier to conceal. Not good for calls, but might save the day after the crises. I really like this idea. I'm stealing it! I've got a couple of old crackberries that should do the trick.
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#260147 - 05/01/13 02:24 AM
Re: Don't count on cell phones in a crisis
[Re: celler]
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Member
Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 169
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And with the Baofung handhelds out there, it has never been cheaper to jump in.
Wow! It has been YEARS since I priced HT's. I've been wanting to purchase one for EDC (preferably with AA power) but have been concerned over the cost. I purchased one since I am no longer concerned about dunking it in the water and destroying a very expensive piece of hardware. Thanks! Conway Yee
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