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#255572 - 01/16/13 09:42 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
widget Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/06/03
Posts: 550
So very sad, such a lovely family and great young boys. I have to pray for the family. it just hits hard when you lose children. This could have been prevented. Probably due to over confidence.

I am just amazed at the number of experienced people that go out with little preparation or survival gear. The consequences are so sad and tragic. Always prepare for the unforseen, it is better to carry some extra gear and not need it than to need it and not have it.
_________________________
No, I am not Bear Grylls, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and Bear was there too!

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#255575 - 01/17/13 01:52 AM Re: Another tragedy [Re: gonewiththewind]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Originally Posted By: Montanero

I have two boys myself, I am a Scout Master. I could not imagine allowing anything like this to happen. I will read this article to the troop, and use it to justify why I make them all carry a poncho, survival kit and bottle of water even if they are only going 100 yards from the camp.

I know a guy that carries a full pack (many, many pounds) of gear just to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. He had a firearm, change of clothes, fire making stuff, three days of quick rations, and a shelter of some sort. He developed this habit when he was growing up outside of Fairbanks, Alaska where the trip to the outhouse in the middle of the night could get tricky. I knew him in Arizona. He did the same thing. I used to make fun of him because I said the only thing missing from his "daypack" was a glass-blowing kit. He is a prime example of being prepared. I learned a lot just from my association with him. Your Scouts are fortunate to have someone like you. Good show!!
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#255581 - 01/17/13 01:46 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Something I wrote about this on another forum.

Quote:
Children do not tough it out. One of the BO issues most people with children seriously overestimate is how well children will hold up in a BO situation, especially on foot in bad weather. The just don't do well. He might have been able to tough it out and walk himself out of the woods (although this is not as easy as it may sound) but he would have had to leave the kids to die.

I don't know what happened to this guy but I can relate to how fast the weather can change. I walk the dog every morning. These days we leave about 4:30 and go about 3.25 miles. Typical suburban type streets and sidewalks. An easy walk.

One time I was about 3 blocks from home when it started to sprinkle. I decided to just walk faster. It was in the upper 40s and I am close to home walking on a paved street. How bad can it get? I leave my poncho that I had in a fanny pack in the pack. Shortly thereafter the sprinkles turn to a torrential downpour. I was wearing a more or less rain resistant nylon jacket. Within maybe 30 seconds I am soaked to the skin. It is raining so hard I cannot see the surface of the street I am walking on more than a few feet away. No wind to speak of, but I am just drenched. In the few additional minutes it takes me to get home I get pretty chilly. Nothing real serious, but if it had happened out in the woods 20 minutes from the car, I might well have been in trouble.

It was a good object lesson about having some protection from the elements and that if you get any warning at all that it is going to rain soon, damn well better put on the rain gear now rather than wait until I am soaked through. Now I see a few drops of rain and the poncho comes out of the pack and if not on me, it gets out of the pouch and in my pocket where I can put it on in about ten seconds.

If you have never been outside when a storm like this brews up, it is hard to realize just how fast it can go from a nice walk in the woods to a life threatening situation.

Another time I was walking the same route and it started to sprinkle so on goes my poncho. The wind picks up and I mean some serious wind. Again, I am only a few blocks from home on a paved street (actually the street is made of concrete pavers, but that is not an important part of the story). The serious rain held off until I made it home but the wind blew my poncho all over the place. If I had been out in the woods in that storm I would have been in trouble and soaked from the waist down.

People forget too how fast hiking conditions can change. Many trails are not well marked and when it gets dark or there is rain so you can't see more than 20 feet in front of you even with a flashlight, it can be easy to miss turn offs. If you have a paper map and it gets wet it is useless.

I was out a few weeks ago hiking and came across a couple on the trail. The gal was dressed appropriately. The guy was wearing blue jeans, a light windbreaker, no hat, no gloves, and low cut canvas shoes. He was obviously cold as he had his hands jammed in his jeans and had his shoulders hunched up. I don't know if he thought he looked cool for walking around in the cold shivering or what. I don't go out this time of the year without hat and gloves. I keep a snap ring on a pack strap so that I can hang them from the strap if I want to take them off as often happens once I start walking and warm up. But even if it is warm enough when I set out to walk without them, they are hooked to my strap. I also keep a spare pair of light weight gloves in an inner jacket pocket along with a balaclava.

I sometimes see guys on bikes out 2 or 3 miles from anywhere in the winter with nothing in the way of gear and dressed like it is summer. They are fine as long as they are humping it, but if they have to stop (say they get a flat), they are in trouble.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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#255582 - 01/17/13 02:38 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: ILBob]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ILBob
Something I wrote about this on another forum.

Quote:
Children do not tough it out. One of the BO issues most people with children seriously overestimate is how well children will hold up in a BO situation, especially on foot in bad weather. The just don't do well. He might have been able to tough it out and walk himself out of the woods (although this is not as easy as it may sound) but he would have had to leave the kids to die.

I don't know what happened to this guy but I can relate to how fast the weather can change. I walk the dog every morning. These days we leave about 4:30 and go about 3.25 miles. Typical suburban type streets and sidewalks. An easy walk.

One time I was about 3 blocks from home when it started to sprinkle. I decided to just walk faster. It was in the upper 40s and I am close to home walking on a paved street. How bad can it get? I leave my poncho that I had in a fanny pack in the pack. Shortly thereafter the sprinkles turn to a torrential downpour. I was wearing a more or less rain resistant nylon jacket. Within maybe 30 seconds I am soaked to the skin. It is raining so hard I cannot see the surface of the street I am walking on more than a few feet away. No wind to speak of, but I am just drenched. In the few additional minutes it takes me to get home I get pretty chilly. Nothing real serious, but if it had happened out in the woods 20 minutes from the car, I might well have been in trouble.

It was a good object lesson about having some protection from the elements and that if you get any warning at all that it is going to rain soon, damn well better put on the rain gear now rather than wait until I am soaked through. Now I see a few drops of rain and the poncho comes out of the pack and if not on me, it gets out of the pouch and in my pocket where I can put it on in about ten seconds.

If you have never been outside when a storm like this brews up, it is hard to realize just how fast it can go from a nice walk in the woods to a life threatening situation.

Another time I was walking the same route and it started to sprinkle so on goes my poncho. The wind picks up and I mean some serious wind. Again, I am only a few blocks from home on a paved street (actually the street is made of concrete pavers, but that is not an important part of the story). The serious rain held off until I made it home but the wind blew my poncho all over the place. If I had been out in the woods in that storm I would have been in trouble and soaked from the waist down.

People forget too how fast hiking conditions can change. Many trails are not well marked and when it gets dark or there is rain so you can't see more than 20 feet in front of you even with a flashlight, it can be easy to miss turn offs. If you have a paper map and it gets wet it is useless.

I was out a few weeks ago hiking and came across a couple on the trail. The gal was dressed appropriately. The guy was wearing blue jeans, a light windbreaker, no hat, no gloves, and low cut canvas shoes. He was obviously cold as he had his hands jammed in his jeans and had his shoulders hunched up. I don't know if he thought he looked cool for walking around in the cold shivering or what. I don't go out this time of the year without hat and gloves. I keep a snap ring on a pack strap so that I can hang them from the strap if I want to take them off as often happens once I start walking and warm up. But even if it is warm enough when I set out to walk without them, they are hooked to my strap. I also keep a spare pair of light weight gloves in an inner jacket pocket along with a balaclava.

I sometimes see guys on bikes out 2 or 3 miles from anywhere in the winter with nothing in the way of gear and dressed like it is summer. They are fine as long as they are humping it, but if they have to stop (say they get a flat), they are in trouble.


Well said, ILBob, and a great example of how things can go wrong in the blink of an eye. We need to stay vigilant and under estimate our ability to deal, especially when it comes to the young,elderly and the sick.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#255589 - 01/17/13 06:33 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
We get funny looks when going even on a short hike on a nice summer day. Everyone else in short shorts, tank tops, and no pack. And we have our convertable hiking pants, shirt, Camelbak packs, etc.

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#255591 - 01/17/13 07:14 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: Eugene]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Eugene
We get funny looks when going even on a short hike on a nice summer day. Everyone else in short shorts, tank tops, and no pack. And we have our convertable hiking pants, shirt, Camelbak packs, etc.


Ditto. I just can't go without having the basics covered.
_________________________
Mom & Adventurer

You can find me on YouTube here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT9fpZEy5XSWkYy7sgz-mSA

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#255595 - 01/17/13 07:47 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: bacpacjac]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
On foot on on the bike, I carry the "Ten" (Usually 12 or so, really) Essentials. I can cover the basics for a total weight penalty of two pounds or so (with the possible exception of adequate water), and that small amount can make all the difference. One absolutely must be able to light and sustain a fire and slap up or find some sort of shelter.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#255776 - 01/23/13 03:22 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
gitnready4it Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 22
What a sad story. Prayers for the family.
_________________________
The future belongs to those who prepare today!

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#255884 - 01/27/13 01:12 AM Re: Another tragedy [Re: widget]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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#255924 - 01/28/13 06:25 AM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
I have a bunch of those Banana Bags for the same purpose. They're quite heavy duty and the bright yellow is a plus.
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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