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#255847 - 01/25/13 07:24 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: JerryFountain]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1111
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: JerryFountain
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Based on my own experience, I have a very hard time believing 60% in 6 months, for either down or synthetic.
********
Yes, it is very unlikely to be the difference between life and death. In most conditions, assuming you have reasonably adequate clothing, you should be able to survive a night inside a car (dry and protected from the wind) even without a sleeping bag. I'm not saying you will be comfortable or happy, or sleep much, but you will survive the night.

AKSAR,
..... Not all the testing has shown the same amount of loss, but all I have seen indicate more than 50%. That COULD be enough to make it life threatning.
........
It would be especially bad if the weather were colder than you anticipated.

Although it is unlikely to be the difference, in most conditions, the idea of equipping to survive is not for the likely circumstance under most conditions. All about the unlikely and the worst conditions.

Jerry,
I think our difference of opinion results from two points. First is the question of what clothing one is wearing. I said "reasonably adequate clothing". By that I meant adequate for the outside conditions. If you are wearing or have with you clothing suitible to be outside of the car in the current weather (whatever it might be), then inside the car you should be able to survive. Cars don't insulate well, and cool down quickly. But assuming no damage, most cars give excellent protection from wind and wet. Seat cushions give reasonable insulation to sit on.

The other point is that there is a big difference between surviving and being comfortable. Spending a night in a cold car without a sleeping bag will not be fun. You won't sleep much, if at all. You will not be a happy camper in the morning, but you will be alive. I have, on several occaisions, spent a night out without a bag, in improvised shelters, but wearing good clothing. Protection from the wind and wet is key. My experience is that I might fall asleep for a few moments, but then wake up shivering. I shiver for awhile, then maybe fall asleep again for a minutes. Repeat until morning. Not a pleasant night, but definately survivable.

If you are not wearing adequate clothing, then the situation changes, of course. In cold weather I see lots of people hop into cars very lightly dressed. They seem to assume that since they are going from a warm house to a warm car to a warm shopping mall there is no need to dress for the cold. If for any reason they got stuck on the road they would be in serious trouble.

"Dress for Success" is my motto. smile


Edited by AKSAR (01/25/13 07:25 PM)
Edit Reason: fixed typo
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#255849 - 01/25/13 08:21 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Dagny]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Originally Posted By: Dagny

My new LL Bean 20-degree bag arrived this evening. The bag has a nice carry handle.

Fills a big gap in my winter car preps. Thanks for the discussion, everyone.

smile

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#255857 - 01/26/13 06:25 AM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Dagny]
m9key Offline
Member

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 143
Loc: florida
i guess being in my situ in fla evac from a hurricane and being stuck in traffic so having at least h20 is essential bug repel flashlight extra food etc...

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#255862 - 01/26/13 12:52 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Dagny]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 830
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
It seems that our friends across the pond are also experiencing "stuck in the car overnight" due to the recent snow.

Good article and photos.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...my-weekend.html

The comments made could have been made during our "Carmegadon" folks, especially the problems of abandoned cars.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#255876 - 01/26/13 09:16 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Dagny]
Jolt Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/10
Posts: 90
Loc: Maine
I like the way the people stuck on the road for hours made the best of the situation by having snowball fights and making snowmen...might as well have fun instead of being miserable!
_________________________
The rhythm is gonna get you...and if it's v-tach or v-fib, the results will be shocking!

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#255880 - 01/26/13 09:54 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: AKSAR]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1111
Loc: Alaska
A few further thoughts on the "Car as Shelter" theme. Most of this will be obvious to folks on this forum, but it is probably worth stating anyway. Looking at someone else's suggested list of what to carry in your vehicle is a starting point, but everyone needs to evaluate their own situation, and decide what is appropriate for them. Some things to consider:

What sort of kit are we planning?
Is this a general kit that will stay in your vehicle all the time? Or are you planning a kit for a particular trip such as a vacation? Or is it a getaway kit for a particular scenario like Florida in hurricane season?

What sort of environment will we be in?
Obviously Alaska or Canada in winter involves some different considerations than Tucson in the summer. What is the likely worst case? What is the worst case you can possibly immagine? Is it an area I'm familiar with, or someplace where I'm not sure what to expect?

What sort of roads are we likely to be on?
Interstate highways? Dirt roads in the mountains or desert? Populated areas with lots of potential help around? Or a long way between help with little traffic?

What are the most likely problems?
Are you concerned about a "carmegeddon" scenario on the DC Beltway? Or a breakdown out in the desert? Both could be a bad situation, but require different preps.

Aside from what's in the kit, how will I be dressed and what else will I be carrying?
If you are heading out on a hike you are probably dressed for the outdoors. If commuting between home and office, you may want to consider some weather appropriate outdoor clothing in your kit.

What sort of vehicle are you driving? How much extra space do you have?
If you are driving a Ford Expedition you have room to take most anything you want. If you drive a Smart car, you need to plan very carefully.

What is your level of skill and confidence? Your level of health and fitness?
No point in carrying stuff you don't know how to use, or are physically unable to use.

What is your tolerance for discomfort? Your tolerance for risk?
Are you comfortable with minimal preparations for only the most likely problems? Or do you feel the need to be ready for even the most highly unlikely scenarios?



Edited by AKSAR (01/26/13 10:00 PM)
Edit Reason: clarity
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#255886 - 01/27/13 01:59 AM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6582
Loc: southern Cal
We have been over thinking this...Fortunately I am a fan of "Prairie Home Companion" and they discussed a much simper solution in a presentation called "Living in the North."

You need only a rifle and a knife. When stranded, you shoot a passing bear, disembowel him, and huddle inside the warm carcass until help arrives. Takes up less space and no nitpicking about down vs, synthetics, etc. Also, no issues with carbon monoxide and all that bothersome stuff

I wonder if a buffalo would serve as well s a bear.....
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Geezer in Chief

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#255892 - 01/27/13 12:50 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Stephen]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Stephen
I got a few cans of sterno and a large multi-wick candle for that. It's about as safe as I can find. The sterno even comes with it's own little pot stand.
Presumably the danger is carbon monoxide in an enclosed space, rather than the flames.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#255897 - 01/27/13 06:14 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: hikermor]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1111
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: hikermor
We have been over thinking this...Fortunately I am a fan of "Prairie Home Companion" and they discussed a much simper solution in a presentation called "Living in the North."

You need only a rifle and a knife. When stranded, you shoot a passing bear, disembowel him, and huddle inside the warm carcass until help arrives. Takes up less space and no nitpicking about down vs, synthetics, etc. Also, no issues with carbon monoxide and all that bothersome stuff

I wonder if a buffalo would serve as well s a bear.....

Real men don't even need the rifle. We just use the knife. wink
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#255942 - 01/28/13 04:43 PM Re: Car as Shelter [Re: Dagny]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Went and got 2 army sleeping bags,2 wool blankets,head gear,2 small packaged tents,gloves the other day at Mil Surplus Store.

Need that cold weather gear,this should go a long way to making vehicle more cold weather survivable.

Going to cover gear in these 7ml bags,10 for 20 bucks at Lowes or Amazon






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