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#255534 - 01/15/13 06:42 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
It was the widow who described her husband as 'experienced'. I take that with a big grain of salt. It's like the guys who say "I've been shooting guns all my life" but have never done any formal training and actually suck at shooting, especially if put on the timer. I'm sure their wives consider them 'experienced shooters'.

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#255536 - 01/15/13 07:07 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
IlBob - you might add a secondary thing to fear to your excellent and simple list:

A nice weather forecast that's wrong.

Trusting a weather forecast is sometimes necessary but don't bet your life on it if you can help it.

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#255537 - 01/15/13 07:12 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
and actually suck at shooting, especially if put on the timer

I would tend to call someone "experienced" if they can hit their target every time firing at once-per-second while maintaining safe firing discipline. But not someone who misses their target many times at a higher rate of speed, flailing around in an unsafe manner, but still managing to beat some arbitrary timer in the process. So the definition of "experienced" does vary, basically, depending on the experience of the person defining "experienced".

Anyway, my point is, it is difficult to say exactly what "experienced" means, no matter what the situation being described is. Does participating on ETS make us experienced? Does carrying a PSK make us experienced? It's kind of hard to say. So we just have to take the news report on face value. Not trusting it totally, but not completely disregarding it either.

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#255539 - 01/15/13 07:41 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: haertig]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: haertig
...But not someone who misses their target many times at a higher rate of speed, flailing around in an unsafe manner, but still managing to beat some arbitrary timer in the process.


You're not beating the timer if you're not getting the hits.

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#255541 - 01/15/13 07:44 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
He obviously was not experienced enough. Just a poncho or space blanket would have kept them alive if they huddled together under it. It does not take much increase in temperature to maintain life. But to lay down, in the open, and stop moving is suicide under their conditions. Building a shelter is not hard, even a pile of leaves, with the three and the dog, would have kept them alive. How the dad could have allowed this to happen is beyond my comprehension. I am trying to think of some thing that would excuse what he did, and I come up blank. Too many options available, and none of them taken.

I have two boys myself, I am a Scout Master. I could not imagine allowing anything like this to happen. I will read this article to the troop, and use it to justify why I make them all carry a poncho, survival kit and bottle of water even if they are only going 100 yards from the camp.

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#255544 - 01/15/13 09:16 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
Stephen Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 177
Loc: Canada
There has to be more to the story than this....
What perplexes me is that the guy was Air Force. I figured he should have had training in survival, however basic.

At any rate, I wasn't there so I won't speculate on what did or didn't happen.

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#255546 - 01/15/13 09:30 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: Stephen]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Stephen

What perplexes me is that the guy was Air Force. I figured he should have had training in survival, however basic.



Once would hope so but in actuality, the Air Force doesn't run around in the woods in the mud and the rain so there's little need for such training except for aircrew who might find themselves shelled out of their warm cocoon and landing almost anywhere.

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#255547 - 01/15/13 09:50 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: unimogbert]
Stephen Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/12
Posts: 177
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
Originally Posted By: Stephen

What perplexes me is that the guy was Air Force. I figured he should have had training in survival, however basic.



Once would hope so but in actuality, the Air Force doesn't run around in the woods in the mud and the rain so there's little need for such training except for aircrew who might find themselves shelled out of their warm cocoon and landing almost anywhere.


Excellent point.

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#255548 - 01/15/13 10:01 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Not all military personnel receive survival training. A person who works in administrative or support roles will rarely receive any such training. Pilots, air crew and special operations personnel are generally the only ones who receive it as a minimum standard. Others do go through it at times, but not often. That goes for all branches. Even combat arms personnel in the infantry, artillery or armor do not often receive it. Living out in the elements can provide some experience, but that is not the equivalent of training for survival. Just serving in the military does not make one a survival expert by any means. Even attending a course does not.

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#255549 - 01/15/13 10:06 PM Re: Another tragedy [Re: airballrad]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Not every Airman gets to go to SERE school.

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