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#254439 - 12/08/12 11:35 PM Easy tip - learn to jump start a car
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
...And print out the instructions for the glove compartment...esp. for your kids.
(Hint its NOT positive to positive and negative to negative)

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#254441 - 12/09/12 12:25 AM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: TeacherRO]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
I dunno, you are not suppose to but that's how 95% of the people do it, and it works just fine.

The pouch my jumper cable came in actually have the correct instruction printed on it.

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#254443 - 12/09/12 02:38 AM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: TeacherRO]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I have yet to see a vehicle that has a convenient, reliable ground point on the frame for boosting. I can't imagine it would cost vehicle manufacturers more than a buck to add one. (Shame!)

That's why people end up using the negative post of the battery as the ground -- even when they know it's not the recommended location.

So, I have reluctantly done it "the wrong way" with evenly matched vehicles and batteries that were only weak, not dead. No problems to report. I'm no expert, but I suspect the trick is to take some time and charge the weak battery at low revs. Then start the weak vehicle, keeping low revs on the charging vehicle. Important safety note in this situation: nobody is allowed anywhere near the batteries when charging or starting is taking place.

But I'm mighty paranoid about "the wrong method," for good reason. Too much juice, in too much of a hurry, with battery-to-battery connections, can be dramatic (and not in a good way). I once witnessed a fellow trying to jump-start a big piece of diesel heavy equipment; he did straight connections, revved his pickup truck up, and blew the caps off that big Cat battery several feet into the air. Yikes!

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#254445 - 12/09/12 06:51 AM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: TeacherRO]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
In my experience, these vehicles have convenient non-moving engine parts (grounds):

1989 Jeep Cherokee
2002 Ford Escape
2000 Honda Civic
2000 Mitsubishi Galant
Various Mercedes sedans

It would be nice if the part was neon orange, but still the part has not been that hard to find. By the way, the reason for not connecting to the negative dead battery is because you risk igniting hydrogen gas from the battery. I have never heard of this happening, but if it happened only once in history, that's enough.
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#254446 - 12/09/12 11:10 AM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Boosting the battery, changing a tire, changing wipers and checking & topping up fluids. That's about the extent of my vehicle repair skills - all vital and easy once you know how to do it. My Dad made sure I knew how to do them all before I started driving and we'll do the same for our kids.
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#254452 - 12/09/12 04:30 PM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: dougwalkabout]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
but I suspect the trick is to take some time and charge the weak battery at low revs. Then start the weak vehicle, keeping low revs on the charging vehicle.


Last time I jumped a fellow my low revs didn't charge his battery whatsoever. Had to hold my revs in the 1800 range to charge his battery somewhat. The jumper cables I had were not capable of carrying full starting current from my battery to his. That's why they are called "booster cables" rather than jumpers (on the packaging).

Reason you don't want to connect post to post is that there will be a spark generated on making the final (4th) connection. You don't want that spark to be close to the top of the battery where hydrogen gas from charging is generated. The spark could propagate into the space above the cells and blow up the battery. (or so I'm told) Having a battery blow up in your face would be a very bad thing.

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#254453 - 12/09/12 05:44 PM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: unimogbert]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
but I suspect the trick is to take some time and charge the weak battery at low revs. Then start the weak vehicle, keeping low revs on the charging vehicle.


Reason you don't want to connect post to post is that there will be a spark generated on making the final (4th) connection. You don't want that spark to be close to the top of the battery where hydrogen gas from charging is generated. The spark could propagate into the space above the cells and blow up the battery. (or so I'm told) Having a battery blow up in your face would be a very bad thing.


I agree that a hydrogen/battery explosion is the primary concern. I was always told that grounding on the frame ensured the primary current path was through the starter and only a secondary current would pass through the battery (thus generating less hydrogen).

Grounding to frame on the dead vehicle is the safe and proper way to do it. Unfortunately, many vehicles don't provide a good frame grounding point that a clamp can hold on to.

(A clarification: by "low revs" I didn't mean idling. You have to rev up a little to charge the dead battery; the bigger the battery, the longer it will take to put a partial charge on it.)


Edited by dougwalkabout (12/09/12 05:48 PM)

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#254455 - 12/09/12 07:40 PM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: unimogbert]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
The jumper cables I had were not capable of carrying full starting current from my battery to his. That's why they are called "booster cables" rather than jumpers (on the packaging).
You want to have big thick jumpers. The thin little weenie cables that often come in commercial roadside emergency kits just don't carry the current efficiently.

Heavy gauge cables are more expensive, but work much more effectively. I had a good illustration of that just the other evening. As I was warming my car up to leave work, a fellow asked if I could help jump his car. Temperatures were around 0 F (-18 C). When I drove over to where he was, another guy already had his thin jumpers on and they were trying to start the car. No luck. We decided to try my (heavy duty) jumpers, and finally, after some effort, got the car started.
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#254457 - 12/09/12 10:27 PM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: TeacherRO]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
second tip - learn how to hot wire the ignition of your own car.

case in point ... my vehicle has a faulty ignition switch and I almost didn't make it to work last Friday morning. I need to check which wires need to be crossed to start the engine :-)

Pete2

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#254460 - 12/09/12 10:53 PM Re: Easy tip - learn to jump start a car [Re: AKSAR]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: unimogbert
The jumper cables I had were not capable of carrying full starting current from my battery to his. That's why they are called "booster cables" rather than jumpers (on the packaging).
You want to have big thick jumpers. The thin little weenie cables that often come in commercial roadside emergency kits just don't carry the current efficiently.

Heavy gauge cables are more expensive, but work much more effectively. I had a good illustration of that just the other evening. As I was warming my car up to leave work, a fellow asked if I could help jump his car. Temperatures were around 0 F (-18 C). When I drove over to where he was, another guy already had his thin jumpers on and they were trying to start the car. No luck. We decided to try my (heavy duty) jumpers, and finally, after some effort, got the car started.


Also when it comes to jumper cables, get a set that is 3' longer then your car or truck so that your vehicle can be boosted by another vehicle parked behind your car. Nothing more dangerous then attempting to maneuver a vehicle around in heavy traffic or narrow roads so that the 2 are front bumper to each other for a jump...

Also for exploding batteries, I can tell you from personal experience that it does happen. Fortunately when it happened to a friend and I, we escaped any serious acid burns and were able to get thoroughly washed off right away. Our clothes though, took the brunt of the acid spray and had be thrown in the garbage.
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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

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