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#253209 - 11/12/12 01:36 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: adam2]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Originally Posted By: adam2
Some years ago I remember reading of a proposed hybrid van or light truck that was to be marketed to builders and other contractors.


You may be thinking of the circa 2003 "Dodge Ram Contractor's Hybrid." Appparently, it never went into production. I thought it was a great idea, and might have bought one...

Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram

Discription:
http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/news/ram_contractor.html
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#253210 - 11/12/12 02:04 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 477
Loc: Somerset UK
Yes, AFAIR that is the one, pity it never made it into production.

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#253222 - 11/12/12 05:15 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I don't have a dog in this hunt but I do own a couple of Prius (Prii?), and '02 and an '07, and I'll agree hybrid engines are a constantly moving target, they are up to Gen III or Gen IV in the latest models. The 02 or 07 could be used as a pretty good generator substitute up to the practical limits that electricians can factor out for you - the gas engine would run only to top up the hybrid battery to continue putting out the current necessary for whatever load you're putting on it. Provided the load is low enough that it doesn't do long term damage to the hybrid battery then this might be worthwhile; watch out though for loads that could drain the battery to zero and cause a warranty repair, which nowadays runs about $3-4K for a Gen I battery (02 Prius). Frankly there is a lot of instrumentation to prevent that in driving scenarios, but they still advise you not to drive with no fuel.

Not sure where folks get the $10K cost differential between any Prius and an equivalent make/model, AFAIK the base Prius 2012 Gen III/IV runs $18K and has the most efficient mileage and hybrid battery to date, excellent durability and costs of operations etc; maybe if you buy an $8K Kia this could pencil out better to buy the Kia and the generator, however for the 99% of the time you're driving the Prius you are not, to put it bluntly, driving a Kia. I know, I've driven both, and a Prius is not a Kia like a Lexus is not a Yugo. But I digress...

On the more modern 2012 Prius there is a noticeable difference in gas mileage and battery operation over the 07, you cruise along below 28 MPH and you do so on electricity, no gas used. If you are waiting in a NJ gas line for hours this would be a great advantage over a conventional gas engine which has to run to give you heat; the Prius just used electricity and only powers up the gas engine to recharge the hybrid battery. Based on car rentals where I drove modern Prius I've gotten 50+ MPG and can attest to this stealth mode of driving electric.

My brother has a Chevy Volt and it runs fine on electricity for relatively short distances (commuter range). It needs to be recharged, and if electricity is out at your house you're up the creek - without a generator. In comparison the hybrid (gas-electric) has some definite advantages.

All this said the Prius has about a 300-350 mile range on a full tank and I factor that into our bug out plans; more modern Prius have larger range of travel on a single tank. And on the whole the Prius like many other cars does a good job of recharging from the 9V outlet and can handle the majority of comms and computing devices. During one windstorm I also recharged a small generator intended for running lights etc from the Prius during the day to allow hours of lights at night.

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#253237 - 11/12/12 10:28 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Great post, Lono, there's no substitute for first-hand info. Clearly my understanding of the cost differential is outdated/incorrect. My mistake.

Could you clarify something that I find confusing? If connecting an off-the-shelf inverter to a Prius, I assume it would be connected to the 12V auxiliary battery. But does the main battery pack (200V+) automatically keep the auxiliary battery charged?

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#253238 - 11/12/12 10:43 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
err - I'm not sure doug, as you might guess i'm electrically challenged and shy away from currents and answers that may electrocute me or others. All I have a working knowledge of is driving Priuses and I'm a happy customer for that. I *think* when you plug in a simple inverter (you mean a socket plug into which you can plug in a standard household electrical plug?), it runs off the 12V battery, which is (probably) charged in the usual way. You need the car to be powered on to use the inverter, and the hybrid battery occasionally kicks on during charging, so there might be a charging connection, then again maybe not.

I get in and it works, and when it stops working I'll probably park it in the backyard and grow blackberries over it.

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#253239 - 11/12/12 11:03 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: adam2]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: adam2
Yes, AFAIR that is the one, pity it never made it into production.

The Hybrid Silverado did around that time. It was only available for fleet purchase and was only an option on the loaded models with leather end push button 4x4. I get the same 21mog highway on a mid level model and maybe 1 mpg less city. I put the second battery tray under the hood that thee diesel trucks use and a battery there so I have the extra power feature just not the generator/starter and no engine idle like the hybrid.

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#253240 - 11/12/12 11:06 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Great post, Lono, there's no substitute for first-hand info. Clearly my understanding of the cost differential is outdated/incorrect. My mistake.

Could you clarify something that I find confusing? If connecting an off-the-shelf inverter to a Prius, I assume it would be connected to the 12V auxiliary battery. But does the main battery pack (200V+) automatically keep the auxiliary battery charged?



It does not. A co worker needed a jump start when the 12v battery went low in his Prius.

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#253246 - 11/13/12 12:21 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Lono]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
My brother has a Chevy Volt and it runs fine on electricity for relatively short distances (commuter range). It needs to be recharged, and if electricity is out at your house you're up the creek - without a generator. In comparison the hybrid (gas-electric) has some definite advantages.


I don't have any experience with the Volt but it should be able to charge it's battery and run the wheel motors off the gas engine. Quoted range is 380 miles. It's supposed to be cheaper/greener to charge it off mains power.
Volt power page

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#253248 - 11/13/12 12:51 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: UTAlumnus]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
I don't have any experience with the Volt but it should be able to charge it's battery and run the wheel motors off the gas engine.

If you mean fully recharge its battery using the gas engine, the Volt can't do that. It will partially recharge the battery during operation to maintain a certain low, buffering amount of charge. But external power is required to fully recharge the Volt's battery.

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#253249 - 11/13/12 01:07 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Thanks for the clarification. Nothing I've seen mentions this (Chevy certainly doesn't).

The charging system on Toyota hybrids can charge them to a full charge depending on what you are doing. When driving on the interstate, they will stay near their normal full charge (all but one bar green). On the downhill side of a mountain, they can fully top off the battery (all bars on the display green).

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