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#253181 - 11/11/12 06:35 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
...may tip the balance to using the gas vehicle for power and saving the fuel in the hybrid for driving around.


Wouldn't it make more sense to park the gas vehicle and use the hybrid exclusively if possible? That way you could save all the gas for the more efficient vehicle.

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#253183 - 11/11/12 07:26 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: UTAlumnus]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Quote:
In contrast, a hybrid vehicle is essentially a well-tuned genset. The engine is much smaller, since it only needs torque to rotate the alternator; and it when it runs, it is at a constant and efficient high RPM.


True HYBRIDS such as the Toyota and Honda models do supply torque to the drive wheels. Power to turn the wheels is delivered from the electric motors, the gas motor, or both depending on the amount of power needed and the state of battery charge. RPM's from the electrics and gas are fed into what Toyota calls the (IIRC) power split device which supplies torque to the wheels.


Thanks, UTAlumnus. Your explanation is much better. I was thinking of it solely in terms of a stationary generator, but that's an oversimplification.

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#253185 - 11/11/12 08:38 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: UTAlumnus]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: UTAlumnus
Wouldn't it make more sense to park the gas vehicle and use the hybrid exclusively if possible? That way you could save all the gas for the more efficient vehicle.

More efficient vehicle for what?

For most people, the hybrid will get more gas mileage than a similarly sized gas vehicle so you use the hybrid for transporation. And if the hybrid is indeed more fuel efficient at generating electricity, too, then I can see the logic of reserving all your available fuel, from both vehicles, exclusively to the hybrid.

But if there's not much appreciable difference in power generating efficiency, in that case, it would seem to be logical to use the hybrid for driving and you can simultaneously run the gas vehicle for power back at home, if you want. In this case, you'd theoretically still use the same amount of fuel overall as you would if you just used the hybrid for transportation and all driving.

And while I'm asking, I might as also ask, so just how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? smile

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#253186 - 11/11/12 08:45 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

But how do you disguise your Toyota Prius to look like an AMC Pacer during an electrical grid outage so the Gennie thieves don't notice? grin

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#253190 - 11/11/12 10:56 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: dougwalkabout]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol

I seriously dug into how they work back in '06 before getting the first model year of hybrid Camry. I've heard differing descriptions but the Chevy Volt may work as a true electric w/ an onboard generator. Chevy's original descriptions made it sound like that but I've also heard that the motor would supply some power to the wheels.


Edited by UTAlumnus (11/11/12 10:57 PM)

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#253191 - 11/11/12 10:58 PM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
I don't know what the generator efficiency is. I was thinking more along the lines of if it's not needed at home during the day, it would make more sense to both use it as a generator and transportation. Park the less efficient vehicle and use it as a mobile fuel container.

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#253197 - 11/12/12 03:55 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Yeah, the challenge is that hybrid design is a moving target. It's in constant evolution. (I always thought of "hybrid" as any combination of electric vehicle with a gasoline engine on board. Pretty broad category in itself. Then add the drive train variations mentioned ... oy vey.)

I am confident that, as a basic assumption, hybrids are by design more efficient as stationary generators. But does that matter much in the unconventional application suggested in the OP? Phew, I can't begin to prove that. Can you even get at all the energy in the main batteries? Some of these run at very high output voltages. That's the first of many question marks.

(Angels dancing is easier, as there are fewer variables. Fat or skinny? Ballroom, break dancing, or mosh pit? Is the pin compliant with ANSI standards?)


Edited by dougwalkabout (11/12/12 04:04 AM)

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#253199 - 11/12/12 04:00 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
But how do you disguise your Toyota Prius to look like an AMC Pacer during an electrical grid outage so the Gennie thieves don't notice? grin


What you need is a fold-up, retractable "skin" of a Yugo or Trabant. No guy will even look at one, let alone touch it, for fear of instant celibacy.

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#253200 - 11/12/12 04:13 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: dougwalkabout]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
Can you even get at all the energy in the main batteries?


No. The car's computer starts the engine to maintain a minimum charge.

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#253206 - 11/12/12 09:45 AM Re: Hybrids better car-based power source? [Re: Arney]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 474
Loc: Somerset UK
Some years ago I remember reading of a proposed hybrid van or light truck that was to be marketed to builders and other contractors.
The proposed vehicle was INTENDED to be used for power generation, not just transport.
Cant remember the full specs, but AFAIR it was able to supply many KW at 120 volt AC, for site lighting and power tools.
The engine was to be stopped or started automaticly as needed, with power being supplied from the battery when possible.

Dont know if this vehicle ever made it to production ?

Most, perhaps all, hybrid vehicles use a power inverter to drive the electric motor at variable speed and permit of a brushless AC motor being used.
It should be possible for this same inverter to produce power for other purposes when stopped. Probably not a DIY project though in view of the cost and complexity of these vehicles.

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