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#252525 - 10/31/12 11:07 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: Teslinhiker]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I would recommend reserving judgment until a bit more is known about the circumstances......


+1

Resorting to using such words as "dummies", "stupid" etc is amateurish and smacks of a vulgar smugness from some people here which is disappointing to say the least. Also you may never know that visitors who find this forum, may be one of the families or friends who lost one of their loved ones on that ship and are seeking answers. For them to see these posts with rude and uneducated, unresearched responses, really does a disservice to not only this forum but also the vast majority of good people here and above all, tarnishes Doug Ritter's great efforts to make our world safer.


Well said!
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The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#252527 - 10/31/12 11:45 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I would recommend reserving judgment until a bit more is known about the circumstances......


+1

Resorting to using such words as "dummies", "stupid" etc is amateurish and smacks of a vulgar smugness from some people here which is disappointing to say the least. Also you may never know that visitors who find this forum, may be one of the families or friends who lost one of their loved ones on that ship and are seeking answers. For them to see these posts with rude and uneducated, unresearched responses, really does a disservice to not only this forum but also the vast majority of good people here and above all, tarnishes Doug Ritter's great efforts to make our world safer.


Well said!


I totally agree. We should be here at ETS to learn and educate, not judge and condem. Personally, and as a member of ETS, it makes it uncomfortable and, frankly, embarassed. There has got to be a more respectful way to conduct a post-event analysis.
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#252533 - 10/31/12 01:51 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
It is doubtful that anything we learn after the fact will make much difference to the way people perceive this.

One story I read suggested the reason they set sail into potential danger was because they had a contract to be in FL in a few weeks. It seems possible that the perceived need to be somewhere to fulfill that contract may have led them to think this was a good idea.

It is also quite possible that having a good deal of experience and skills in sailing they figured they were good enough to make it through regardless of the weather. It is not unusual for people who either have or think they have special skills and/or knowledge to be willing to take on unnecessary risks because they think their skill and experience will get them through if something goes wrong.

Perhaps a combination of both these factors (and possibly many others) along with mechanical difficulties proved to be their undoing. It is doubtful we will ever know with any real certainty.

Incidentally, something I read elsewhere said there were two Coast Guard choppers involved, several hours apart. That kind of makes sense as I suspect getting 14 people into a single CG copter might not be possible.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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#252534 - 10/31/12 02:05 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: ILBob]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5237
Loc: SOCAL
Without a steerage failure Bounty may have made it to Florida and been a non-event.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#252545 - 10/31/12 04:35 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: ILBob]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
So Bob,youre reading it was at sea to fulfill a contract (I'd like to read that if you can link),a management failure......Just as I figured.

Im reading from a Captain on the ship he questions why wasnt she moored.Just as I 'prematurely' questioned it,the basic seamanship.

Sounds like some decisions were made that the former Captain thinks werent wise.

Hmmmm......questions why she was at sea says the former Captain who spent 28 years aboard her? Thanks Captain Boyd for backing me up on that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the 18 foot seas and 40 mph winds had something to do with the damage to the rudder thats been reported.When that occured is known,and no doubt we will hear soon as survivors start recounting their experiences.

------------------------
http://www.tampabay.com/news/weather/hur...ll-ship/1258884

In his 28 years aboard the Bounty, Boyd abandoned ship only once.

It was 1965. He hadn't seen his wife in a year.........

Boyd questioned why the ship had been at sea in such terrible conditions, noting it may have been wiser to moor near a land barrier.
--------------------------
And this....

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Coast...-176228331.html

The Bounty's last position was about 160 miles from Hurricane Sandy's eye. Officials say the ship started taking on water in 18-foot waves and 40 mile per hour winds off the North Carolina coast.

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#252841 - 11/04/12 12:51 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
OK,no verification can I find of rudder damage but what was posted here, but lots on her condition.

Had 10 feet water aboard and taking on 2 feet/hour in the end.

She was known as quite a leaky vessel.

The following sites are great for learning about Bounty and tall ships with comments from those who sail them to those who have been aboard and/or sailed Bounty.

They will discuss sailing,decisions,condition of Bounty,where she was located and why many said she should not have been there. How wooden ships leak,how they are stressed in weather.

Message from Ms Christian before voyage,her fears going out and ships condition. Just all kinds of information.They talk of the 2 tall ships that left port that day,and where is the other?60 miles North,in Portland,hauled out of the sea onto land.Much relief at that news.

First is wooden boats site.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.p...c525c48832fba80


This man predicted it was in danger on the 27th,2 days before the sinking,but his post was moderated about what he thought of Captain and decision when you read it,so i will only include this on post #7 thats still there now and x out the other explicit comments.


---------------------
Default Re: HMS Bounty and Hurricane Sandy

He is sailing down wind into the big drop off of the shelf with a northly flow of current. The winds are in and around north by northeast 40 knots right now and the bulk of the weather has not reached the point of the banks yet . xxxx xxxxx xxxxx xxxxx.....The bouy off of Hatteras is reporting 24 foot seas right now with the center of the storm still south.
--------------------

Lets just say he said he didnt agree with Captain.And his fears of them making it at all.2 days before she sank

========================
It progresses through to the sinking,posting positions in real time from GPS.Gets real interesting when they are talking about the geographical area of Cape Hatteras and what a known danger that is to sailing ships,how their options are decreasing... then,how they are in real danger there,why are they there?????....then....News of trouble and the sinking.

Very terrible story of the voyage.Being posted in real time.

The next site is this.

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/10134-hms-bounty-hurricane-sandy.html
----------------
Now beware,this site is about and by professional sailors and they are tough men,they dont pull punches and they talk like,well,sailors.

They too have their stories to tell,more on what the ship was about (construction of wooden ships)and how they fail in rough seas and a few videos of the Captain.Comments about chasing hurricanes and how exhilarating that is.That really concerned these men.

These Captains on down to deckhands have a lot to say.And are qualified to say it,its what they do professionally.

To read both threads and links will take 6 hours and give you quite an education,along with things like CG regulations,licensing,seamanship,the sailing ship industry,and their opinions and why about Bounty's seaworthiness.

Soooo.... if you want to know what the pros think of the disaster of HMS Bounty,and learn an awful lot about sailing,those links will do it.

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