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#252407 - 10/30/12 02:24 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2882
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I too am humbled by the exhaustive research and discerning expert analysis in this thread. It is truly a wonder to behold.

#252412 - 10/30/12 03:29 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
Sorry,but this has been known for a while the storm was coming.

I remember as a kid being in a sailboat in a storm on Lake Erie,it was a life and death situation and no sailor worth his salt would ever knowingly venture into one.

Fortunately my Father WAS a very good sailor and the boat involved was built and owned previously by a former Coast Guard Commander,a very seaworthy vessel.

I will stick with very poor choice and NOT a smart move,you wont ever catch me venturing out to sea in a KNOWN storm in any circumstance.

A reason for the expression,ANY PORT IN A STORM.

Very poor judgement,sorry,it was.Being PC or sympathetic wont change my opinion on it.Extremely poor choice IMO.

As for those who died,a terrible tragedy,nobody is downplaying that.

But Im glad I wasnt sailing with them.They blew it.

#252415 - 10/30/12 03:47 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
spuds Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/12
Posts: 822
Loc: SoCal Mtns
And it rates right up there with the fools (YES,FOOLS) who drive through flooded roadways / BARRIERS for crying out loud and get swept away....constantly,and those who wont evacuate inland when a storm is bearing down and evacuations are called (Katrina,they HAD options,made poor choices),or those who ignore the fire evacuations and get burned to death.

Some people just make extremely bad life and death choices,nothing new,and will never change.And that includes Sailors too.

#252417 - 10/30/12 04:21 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
That was a 180' ship, not a small boat, and 16 people aboard sounds like a bare-minimum crew even for a modern automated ship.

And large ships do not seek port in a hurricane's path. They'll just be beaten to pieces against the dock and then deposited inland. Even scuttling it in port ahead of time planning on salvage later seems wishful thinking, although I think it's done as a last resort sometimes.

The ship left port last Thursday to void the storm. I haven't seen mention of when the critical equipment failure (steering?) occurred. SOS was Sunday evening. Not clear when ship was abandoned.

#252418 - 10/30/12 07:25 AM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7290
Loc: southern Cal
I have an extensive background in Mountain SAR (somewhere more than 400 operations) and in accident/incident investigation during my career in the NPS. One thing has been evident with startling clarity - don't leap to conclusions before all the facts have been obtained and you have a clear understanding of the background and context in which the incident developed. This is something that requires a bit of investigation; the necessary information is often not evident even when you are present at the operation. It is certainly not available from immediate news reports.

Rushing to judgment and bandying about language like "fools" is premature and hasty, to say the least. This kind of thing occurs all the time in the usual internet forum, but one can hope that ETS is a bit smarter and more sophisticated. As Teslinhiker eloquently points out, it would be best to hold off on name calling until we clearly understand the situation.

The whole point of discussing tragedies of this sort is to learn from them; without thoughtful, thorough analysis, that is impossible.
Geezer in Chief

#252422 - 10/30/12 01:43 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 860
Loc: Colorado
Note that forecasting the path of a hurricane is uncertain at best.

Note that this ship is considerably slower than cruise liners.

Put the two together and things were probably a LOT less clear-cut than the uninvolved think.

At least she didn't go down with all hands. (And God Bless the Coast Guard!)

#252425 - 10/30/12 03:04 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: TeacherRO]
JPickett Offline

Registered: 08/03/12
Posts: 264
Loc: Missouri
My own opinion, take it for what it's worth. Better to lose the ship in port than the crew at sea. In 1994, If I recall, my family and I drove to the Florida panhandle for a weeks vacation.(we lived in Georgia at the time.) We got unpacked at our condo and I turned on the tv. A cat 1 hurricane had formed in the gulf and was headed right for us. I didn't hesitate. We put everything back in the car and drove to Tallahasse for the night. The hurricane passed over the panhandle that night and moved up into Georgia. We drove back to Mexico Beach the next morning. Had a great vacation.

#252428 - 10/30/12 03:21 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: Teslinhiker]
gulliamo Offline

Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 172
Loc: Denver, CO, USA
Originally Posted By: Teslinhiker
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I would recommend reserving judgment until a bit more is known about the circumstances......


Resorting to using such words as "dummies", "stupid" etc is amateurish and smacks of a vulgar smugness from some people here which is disappointing to say the least. Also you may never know that visitors who find this forum, may be one of the families or friends who lost one of their loved ones on that ship and are seeking answers. For them to see these posts with rude and uneducated, unresearched responses, really does a disservice to not only this forum but also the vast majority of good people here and above all, tarnishes Doug Ritter's great efforts to make our world safer.

Quite possibly the best post I've seen on any forum.

#252434 - 10/30/12 04:51 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: gulliamo]
RNewcomb Offline

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 170
Loc: Iowa
Alright - I'll concede that I didn't know it actually had it's own engines and had been modernized. I'm in no way a sailor, and wouldn't ever claim to be an expert on any of this stuff.

My deepest sympathies for the families and friends of the two who did not make it. At the time of my post, it sounded fairly promising they were close to getting all the crew to safety.

I think it was a case of poor risk assessment. I understand it's fairly common practice to take ship out of port when a strong storm is coming.

As I see it, there were two scenario's here...

#1 - Leave the boat tied up.. Risk - it might get damaged but I would think that at worst sink in shallow water. No lives put at risk.

#2 - Take her out, ride out the storm and hope everything goes well and come back with a heck of a story. Risk - The boat going down in deep water, forcing a SAR mission, risking the crew and the SAR team's lives as they try to pluck you from the waters.

It's too bad it turned out the way it did, the crew looked VERY shaken up.

#252437 - 10/30/12 05:34 PM Re: #1 things not to do in a hurricane [Re: RNewcomb]
Meadowlark Offline

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern Colorado
So sorry to hear about the ship's crew members. frown

What not to do?

1) Don't believe everything you hear.

In the chaos of a disaster, even authoritative sources can be misinforming. One apartment building was told they'd have the water running again ASAP, only to find that "soon" was much later than anticipated. At the earler news, several people had emptied their bathtubs of water -- which apparently was their only emergency supply.

2) Don't go outside if you can help it.

Several people lost their lives due to falling trees/debris and at least one unfortunate person got electrocuted by stepping into water.

3) Don't give in to anxiety or despair. Disasters can really bring out the best in people -- even hard-nosed city folk.

Thoughts and prayers go out to those living in the affected areas....

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