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#251646 - 10/10/12 10:12 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: MartinFocazio]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
My safes and locks are for keeping children and honest people out. I expect a dedicated thief can get into anything in my price range. I plan accordingly. I make it so my life won't be turned upside down if whatever is in the safe is suddenly gone. Redundancy, not everything goes in one spot. Again, I use mechanical safes and locks only.
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#251647 - 10/10/12 10:26 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: chaosmagnet]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
I have a Vline safe for a shotgun, no beeps, no batteries, a basic pushbutton mechanical safe that I can operate by touch. I like it lots and I think I'm going to add another one.

I'm looking to deter casual access, not prevent theft.

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#251648 - 10/10/12 10:41 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: MartinFocazio]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
I'm big on the Simplex push button and S&G dial locks myself. Not to go all apocalyptic on you, but I do not know what an electromagnetic pulse will do to those electronic locks. Not that such a thing is a likelihood, but in a worse case scenario, I would not want one of those locks between me and any essentials.

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#251658 - 10/11/12 03:55 AM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: MartinFocazio]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
I had an electronic safe once, it did come with emergency access keys. One day I needed to get into it in a hurry and, of course, the batteries were dead. In my panic I could not remember where I had hidden the emergency keys. Two quick smacks with a hammer and I was right inside. So much for security.

As much as I'd like the convenience and speed, I'm sticking with old-school key or combination locking safes for now on. I'd rather invest my money on security than fancy technology that is likely to fail again at a critical moment.
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#251668 - 10/11/12 06:13 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: Paul810]
ducktapeguy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: Paul810
Just like there are high end combination locks, there are also high end electronic locks. If you're buying a 'safe' from a typical big box store, you're getting neither.

We've got some high-end TL rated safes, and they're a totally different animal from most of the consumer garbage out there. In these security rated safes you can get high end S&G electronic locks, or even KABA locks, which are electronic, yet require no batteries.

On the high end, electronic locks can do things mechanical locks can't. You can set time delays (so the safe will only open during business hours, even if you have the code), you can track dates and times the safe was opened (as well as who it was opened by if you give them an individual code), you can set it to lock out after a certain number of failed attempts, you can set it for dual mode (essentially requiring two people to open it), etc.

Basically, depending on what your needs are, electronic locks can do things mechanical locks can't even dream of.

With that in mind, if you're buying a cheap firebox or even a rated RSC for your home, you're probably better off with a mechanical dial lock. Even the low-end ones are relatively simple and robust, whereas low end electronic locks often aren't.


Paul hit the nail on the head.

On the cheap end, mechanical locks are probably more reliable than a cheap electronic locks, mostly due to their simplicity. But when you get to the high end locks, electronic locks offer many advantages that mechanical locks can't. If you walk into any bank or extremely secure facility, you probably won't see too many mechanical dial locks. Mechanical locks also require regular servicing to stay reliable, depending on how often it's used and in what conditions.

There are advantages to each, and it's a good idea to have one of each type. Electronic for everyday quick access, and mechanical dial lock for long term infrequent access.

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#251671 - 10/11/12 07:07 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: ducktapeguy]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: ducktapeguy
If you walk into any bank or extremely secure facility, you probably won't see too many mechanical dial locks.


When I was talking to a safe installer years ago, he was telling me about how the mechanical high security dial locks used in government facilities are actually designed to be shielded from radiation.

When I asked him why, he said that, apparently, someone discovered a portable X-RAY machine can make figuring out a mechanical combination pretty easy.

This was one of the driving forces behind a shift to electronic locks. X-RAY an electronic lock and all you can see is the circuit boards.

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#251672 - 10/11/12 07:10 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: Paul810]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Paul810
X-RAY an electronic lock and all you can see is the circuit boards.


But you can use similar equipment to induce a voltage in the "open sesame" circuit, if you know what you're doing. Everything is a tradeoff.

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#251679 - 10/12/12 03:15 AM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: MartinFocazio]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1562
Sorry for interrupting this discussion

I have a question related to locks but not related to safes. I have a lock with a key that does not go IN the lock. The key is a piece of rectangular metal. When I need to open the lock, I just use the key to TOUCH the lock from the outside ( on a spcific side) and the lock opens.

It has been with me for years and years now. I use it for a shed under the blazing sun, dust and rain, and hasn't failed so far

Does anyone know what it is and how it works ???

Thanks

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#251685 - 10/12/12 11:46 AM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: MartinFocazio]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Sounds like a magnetically keyed lock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_keyed_lock

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#251693 - 10/12/12 07:05 PM Re: Fire Safes with Electronic Locks: NO [Re: Paul810]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Paul810
...someone discovered a portable X-RAY machine can make figuring out a mechanical combination pretty easy.

Not too many theives have one of these machines just laying around. Buying would probably cost them more than they'd get from any heist. And they aren't exactly "portable" in the sense of "throw one in your car and carry it inside". At least not the medical ones.

Besides, do X-Rays really penetrate metal all that well? I would expect most low power X-Rays to be blocked by the steel in the door of a safe. Maybe you might be able to see something if you cranked the power up high enough. But then, the thief would have just fried their gonads in that endeavor.

Just doesn't seem terribly feasible for your garden variety thief to go lugging an X-Ray machine around to their home breakins. Not really feasible for a high end thief either.

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