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#252201 - 10/24/12 06:13 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: AKSAR]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
Originally Posted By: Chisel

Once in a WFR recert, they gave us a good quote for those kind of situations: "Don't just do something....stand there!" What they meant is that even in tight situations, it usually pays to take a second to get your wits about you.

I've also heard that in medical school they tell young newbe doctors to "First take your own pulse!" Again, what they mean is to first calm down, then deal with the situation.

There are a few situations that might require instant action. In first aid that might be blood squirting from and artery, or someone who has stopped breathing. Certainly there are a few other cases where one needs to react instantly, like a weapon jam during a firefight. However, in 90% of survival situations, you will be better off taking a coulple of seconds to calm down, assess the situation, and think clearly.


I think this is a modern response to the 'fight or flight reflex' we humans have been dealing with for millions of years - frightening situations have triggered a flight response for most of that time, we tend to hang around only when we assess that we can or must fight our way out of the situation. That fight or flight mechanism tends to keep us alive and propogating the species to live and fight another day. Everything from med school to wilderness first aid to combat training is intended to condition the person to stay and address the situation rather than run away. It runs counter to what our brains were originally programmed for, for the most part.

The big takeaway from combat training is you stay to fight for your buddy next to you, and maybe also you're dead already so deal with it (fight). The takeaway from most medical training is someone has to stay and stop that arterial bleed, so you better take a breath and do it (fight). Running away from trauma won't help anybody, and while it won't get you killed flight will damage your career as a doctor / nurse / EMT. You can recover, but most often you'll seek another profession if you run away from arterial bleeds as a medical professional...

Everytime I've stopped to give emergency first aid I think about this, and a little niggling signal from my amygdalla seems to say, run, run away fast, but them my training takes over and you stay and deal with it. You won't die but someone might. But that little amydgalla still reacts to the frightening scenario the same every time, its just that we can voluntarily over ride it almost every time with training and preparedness. Stop and take a breath, or your pulse, or just stand there, or more formally assessing the scene for safety is the gap that you need between the flight impulse and for training to take over and the impulse to stay and fight. That I think makes us human somehow.

(mentally though the last time I performed CPR 2 years ago I had a vivid image in my head of Homer Simpson, saying "Stupid Brain" to himself. Initially part of me wanted nothing to do with this frightening scenario. Its weird what we use for the interrupts and gaps to get things done).


Edited by Lono (10/24/12 06:19 PM)

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#252202 - 10/24/12 06:53 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: AKSAR]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
[quote=Chisel]"Don't just do something....stand there!" What they meant is that even in tight situations, it usually pays to take a second to get your wits about you.

"First take your own pulse!"


I like both of those. I've also heard, It's not your emergency, but that doesn't really apply to this thread.

Like I tell some of my folks - "it's either going to get better or worse." Sometimes things just need to develop, and you need to know when to sit and wait, and when to act. Preferably NOT after the time to act has passed!

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#252203 - 10/24/12 07:07 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Fitness is a tough one...takes a time commitment
Yep, in some cases years. For those who don't work out, there is always some excuse.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#252204 - 10/24/12 07:08 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: Lono]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Lono
I think this is a modern response to the 'fight or flight reflex' we humans have been dealing with for millions of years - frightening situations have triggered a flight response for most of that time, we tend to hang around only when we assess that we can or must fight our way out of the situation. That fight or flight mechanism tends to keep us alive and propogating the species to live and fight another day. Everything from med school to wilderness first aid to combat training is intended to condition the person to stay and address the situation rather than run away. It runs counter to what our brains were originally programmed for, for the most part.
......
I suppose "fight or flight" is part of it. The main point I was trying to make is that all too often people feel that they must react instantly. However, in most cases taking a bit of time to assess the whole situation leads to a better outcome. A very few situations really do require instant action, but most do not.

Using another analogy from first aid, one should try to avoid "Puddle Thinking". That's when you find someone with an obvious wound with a puddle of blood around it. You instantly jump in and do an awesome job of applying direct pressure on the wound. Sure enough, in a short time the bleeding completely stops smile ..........But only then do you look up and notice that the guy (or gal) isn't breathing.......... frown

In most cases, taking a brief moment to evaluate the whole situation is time well spent. You will have a much better set of priorities, you will think more clearly, and your overall response will be much better.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
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#252616 - 11/01/12 04:31 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Two big things: fitness and reference.
get your cardio up and have the useful books/ apps/ links that you might need

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#254686 - 12/16/12 05:39 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Also, charge your gear before a storm.

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#254832 - 12/22/12 11:11 AM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
Finn Offline
Member

Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 173
Loc: Colonial Heights, VA
Training + Planning + Gear

Fitness came to me because I no longer had a car and I moved off a bus route. What I had started with recreational hiking, work & chores grew into physical fitness. Further, being poor forced me to make better food choices. Regarding mental toughness, being knocked mighty low by divorce (etc.) I came back through the efforts of friends, the writings of Marcus Aurelius and self-discipline.

As an Army medic, the training was a factor in helping me get over the "Oh shoot (cleaned up)!" response. I specifically recall a guy that had a minor head wound with lots of blood. I took a moment and re-focused on the need to help this guy. Now I respond quickly & calmly whenever I encounter a medical aid situation.

There is a reason that the military & businesses plan things. Having an idea of what you need to do in an emergency is more effective than just going with the flow all the time.

I have too much stuff in my evac ruck. 'Nuff said.
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People don't like to be meddled with.
~River Tam

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#260114 - 04/30/13 06:30 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
Working on the fitness end of things recently...steady as she goes...

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#260125 - 04/30/13 08:09 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
Working on the fitness end of things recently...steady as she goes...


Here too, Teacher. Trying to get my body back into backpacking form as it adjusts to being in mom of a newborn form. About 10 pounds and a bunch of strengthening to go!
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Mom & Adventurer

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#260129 - 04/30/13 08:47 PM Re: Equipped yes, but also... [Re: TeacherRO]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
are you planning to cart the little one around with you while backpacking?

it seems like maybe the back woods is not the best place to bring an infant.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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