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#248668 - 07/17/12 06:52 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 298
Loc: ST. Paul MN
From what I am reading by your question I would suggest self defense classes. Carrying such an item could cause you as much problems as it could solve them.

Not knowing nor pretending to know the laws in your area, I will say that you are possibly causing more issues that you are solving.

Perhaps some classes on self defense would be best. I know that there was a bit of shoot out in Toronto recently, and I am not sure that possessing a fire arm would have solved the issue. Ducking and running, that may be at times the best solution.

Even if you do decide to carry, I would strongly suggest self defense classes. You may not be looking to learn Kata's and forms, but a real world self defense class may really help you.

One of my instructors once said, "once you clear leather and pull the trigger, you just committed to $10,000 in legal fees."

Questions of use of force and so much more come into play.

For the urban bag, you can better judge what you do and don't need in there for resources.


Edited by Tyber (07/17/12 06:56 PM)

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#248669 - 07/17/12 07:09 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: haertig]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: haertig
The "use" and "need" for firearms in Canada is exactly the same as in the US. Self defense and sustenance hunting. That part doesn't change. The difference is whether that's legal in Canada or not. And if you are willing to break Canadian laws during a disaster situation to protect and/or feed yourself, or would be willing to settle for different results than you might get without a firearm.

You are absolutely correct. I guess I'm wondering to what degree those things are practical given our environment. And actually, I guess I'm mostly wondering about the defence aspect; I think I have a clearer idea of the practical aspects of hunting up here.

And, to clarify, I'm talking about uses completely within the realm of legality.

Originally Posted By: haertig
You may be willing to settle for different results because you don't think the likelyhood of the original event is high. Maybe assaults in Canada are so low that it becomes irrelevent to own a firearm for self defense. That is your call.

Good points about the risk analysis though, I think that has to come into the picture as well.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#248670 - 07/17/12 07:13 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Tyber]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Tyber
From what I am reading by your question I would suggest self defense classes. Carrying such an item could cause you as much problems as it could solve them.

For Canada, any form of carry is a non-issue; its simply not allowed. Firearms are not a self defence option outside of your home.

That being said, your suggestion of self defence training makes a lot of sense.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#248685 - 07/17/12 08:50 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
cfraser Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Toronto area, Ontario, Canada
^ It is very unlikely you will get any detailed practical advice *publicly* from a Canadian who has a clue. We all know better. We only talk about other people who did this and that...of course. smile

Edit: in case it's of any interest, since I don't know exactly what you had in mind, a home security expert we had lecture at the gun club once, highly recommended a very bright light for giving you that break in a home situation. He said a couple hundred lumens was fine, but a couple million candlepower "close" in the face is finer.


Edited by cfraser (07/17/12 08:57 PM)

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#248686 - 07/17/12 08:51 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Channeled Scablands
I helped a friend with some logistics for on a Cowboy Action shoot last month. Several
Canadians attended. One fellow told me some of the differences
between Canada and the US. In CA he was allowed handguns with
barrels 4" or over, while in the US you can own shorter. On the
other hand he could own in Canada a short barreled rifle or
shotgun, whereas in the US they are restricted and even in "free"
states they require a Federal tax stamp. He said he owned short barreled AR type rifles. (Just looked online and see
the short barreled long guns do require extra paperwork in
CA)

Even bringing firearms across the border wasn't a big deal as long as the paperwork for both countries was done in advance.

As Cowboy Action shooters, they brought single action revolvers,
shotguns, and lever action rifles. They cast their own bullets
and loaded their own cartridges.

If I remember right, he was from BC.

They were a friendly bunch, some were firearm dealers. You might
find a club like that to visit for more insight.

http://www.cascanada.com/casalberta/index.htm

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/rangemaps.html



Edited by clearwater (07/17/12 09:17 PM)

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#248694 - 07/17/12 09:38 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: cfraser]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: cfraser
^ It is very unlikely you will get any detailed practical advice *publicly* from a Canadian who has a clue. We all know better. We only talk about other people who did this and that...of course. smile

I guess since intent figures so prominently into things it's likely not too wise to spell out any sort of plans in this area publicly.

Honestly, the reason for this post was, like jzmtl's comment earlier on, given our regulated environment I can't really see a very large, practical role for firearms in urban Canada and I was wondering if I was missing something or if this is indeed the case.

I'm leaning towards the thinking that things like home hardening, alarms, and even super-bright flashlights like you mention are all much more practical areas to focus upon. And, for being out and about, perhaps some self-defence or situational awareness training could be beneficial.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#248696 - 07/17/12 10:18 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1415
OK, Denis, it sounds like urban self-defense is one of the things you are interested in. If guns are not possible for one reason or another, what kind of weapons can you carry or have at home? Knife? Sticks? Swords? These are proven tools of destruction. Not as convenient and powerful as a firearm, and require much more training and physical ability. But they work. Find people who can teach you to fight with them. Usually dedicated students can become lethal and effective against untrained people in a few years.

Situation awareness is a great weapon, and it's something you have to carry with you almost all the time. A weekend self-defense class won't give you that. You need regular, frequent, and prolonged exposure to a mock combative environment. But this is a big commitment.

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#248697 - 07/17/12 10:24 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Denis
I'm leaning towards the thinking that things like home hardening, alarms, and even super-bright flashlights like you mention are all much more practical areas to focus upon. And, for being out and about, perhaps some self-defence or situational awareness training could be beneficial.


For the home, I consider a firearm to be one or my most practical layers of security. My dog is probably number one. Hardening the home is a relatively difficult thing to do (even though I try). I'm talking about trying to harden against home invaders who don't care about the beauty of my doors. In contrast, a firearm can instantly turn a weak person into somebody who is difficult to harm.

It's a bummer that Canada has strong restrictions on firearms.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#248698 - 07/17/12 10:41 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Bingley]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Bingley
OK, Denis, it sounds like urban self-defense is one of the things you are interested in.

Honestly, I guess I don't really know what looking to learn now smile. I started this thread just wondering about how other Canadians viewed the role of firearms but, logically, this has moved more into talking about self & home defence in general. As this isn't something I've thought too much about any input is welcome.

As far as what we cannot own, this list from the Canadian Border Services Agency summarizes that pretty well. Also, from what I understand, any object can be legally considered a weapon when the individual's intent is to use it to harm another individual.

I hear you about the training aspect though. I have played with the idea of getting involved in something like martial arts in the past, as much for fitness as preparedness, but ultimately balked at the commitment required.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#248700 - 07/17/12 10:53 PM Re: Urban Canadians ... firearms? [Re: Denis]
cfraser Offline
Member

Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 110
Loc: Toronto area, Ontario, Canada
One of the strange aspects of "firearms" in Canada is that an airgun that has a mv greater than 500fps is considered a firearm, yet black powder rifles aren't (you don't need any permit to acquire one).

Anything that looks like a gun (maybe a black plastic waterpistol) is considered a firearm if you use it in the commission of a crime.

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