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#247658 - 06/29/12 12:17 AM I Thought I Was Prepared
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1807
Loc: Ocala, FL
I have been on the path to being prepared for a month: water, food, first aid and prescription medications. I also have been working on getting out of debt.

I won’t say what triggered this discussion but my friend Lisa strongly believes we will run into a situation that could possibly last as long as a year in which resources such as water, electricity and food will not be available.

In a situation like this I believe our circle of friends and family is better off in one place, safety in numbers. One of whom just recently joined this forum but has not posted yet. Among the collective properties we have, only two have access to water. At a third location Lisa is trying her hand at gardening and is planning to put solar panels on her roof.

Here was the first problem that popped in my mind: Even if we divide our little circle among these three locations, there is not enough space for all of us. I brought this up in our discussion. Either we do not have a solution or no one wants to deal with it.

This is the biggest question that comes to mind: How do I motivate my party to work together on a solution? If we do have a year-long situation, I have family members who will go hungry given our current level of preparedness.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#247660 - 06/29/12 12:54 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1914
Loc: Washington, DC
I know I'll never be prepared for what you describe. And I'm okay with that.

In this nation of 300 million the prospect of an entire year of not having water, electricity and food (the cataclysm which causes it surely would not stop at our borders) on a mass scale falls into the TEOTWAWKI category of scenarios that I have decided simply cannot really be prepared for.

Even if you could stockpile enough to get you and your circle through such a scenario -- does anyone think the 99.9% of the population not so prepared is just going to stand by and respect property rights in that scenario?

Without those basic services, our society cannot sustain 300 million people. For darn sure Mexico couldn't handle that situation. We cannot even conceive of the chaos -- riots, violence, despair, starvation and disease -- that would ensue.

If you have Warren Buffet's resources, you could buy an island, stock it and hire some guys to torpedo any boats that attempt to approach.

Most of the rest of us in the modern world are going to sink or swim together.

So I'm happy to be prepared for the reasonably likely threats - hurricanes, earthquakes, even small scale terrorist attacks.

TEOTWAWKI? No, I'm not even going to try. I'll only pray we never get to that point. And I am confident we will not.

So I urge you, Jeanette, to continue preparing, first and foremost, for the prospect that you will live to the ripe old average age of 87 or so because there will not be an armageddon in your lifetime. And the worst disaster you'll ever have to deal with will probably entail a power outage lasting a few days, maybe a week or two, and it will be caused by some precedented weather event.

At least your family is nearby. Mine are not even all in this country. I'm just going to have faith as well as some extra food and candles.

P.S. Have you done much camping? A sleeping bag doesn't take much space. A lot of people can cram into spaces and sleep for 8 hours. It just won't be pleasant long-term. Groups can also sleep in shifts, and you'd need to since 24/7 some peops are going to have to be guarding the supplies that everyone else in society ran out of months ago.



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#247661 - 06/29/12 01:07 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2810
Loc: La-USA
Questions:
1. How close together are these three properties/families?

2. Why can't each of the family units work on solving their own sustainabilty problems for their piece of property. ie: rainwater roof catchment system for the property that doesn't have access to water? Garden space that will maximize produce output on each property to try and feed that properties occupants?

3. Are other family members coming to each property owner's homes but won't be bringing food stuffs and other supplies with them?

4. Is one piece of property only grazing capable? Goats, cows, & chickens but not able to garden? Is only one piece or two properties only able to support gardening?

5. What are the common factors to promote yall coming together? One grows meat and swaps that for veggies with the other? To provide for a common defense against possible looters/raiders? Are you all next door neighbors or are these three properties too far from each other for mutual support with food, water, defense, etc.

I do not want answers to these questions but am merely trying to provide some food for thought from different angles. Where there are disagreements, put yourself in the other party's shoes and approach the problem from their POV. Also, perhaps consider that you maybe working up an alliance with the wrong people if no one is willing to compromise.

Just my thoughts off the top of my head.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#247667 - 06/29/12 01:49 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Dagny]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1807
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: Dagny
Even if you could stockpile enough to get you and your circle through such a scenario -- does anyone think the 99.9% of the population not so prepared is just going to stand by and respect property rights in that scenario?

That is why I am saying “safety in numbers.” Among us we have several guns and people who know how to use them.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#247670 - 06/29/12 01:54 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
I'm not sure what you mean by 'not enough space.' Have you ever seen a car full of clowns (or a VW Beetle in the 60's?). Space is a commodity, especially in the US. You can fit 20-30 folks in a typical house if you really need to. Or look at the Navy and the term "hot bunking."

Probably a bigger and more realistic concern would be sanitation. That could certainly suffer easily. Though I suppose that garden would suddenly flourish.

I don't know that you can motivate people. You can educate them, and encourage them to start their own preps. Or you can let them starve for a week or 2 until they realize that, "hey, being part of this commune and getting some food sounds like a good idea!" But you can't force them to figure it out. And, honestly, if you approach most people with a "world's falling apart for a year, so get ready!" approach, they're going to laugh you off or commit you for medication. Baby steps, Jeanette.

Oh, as for safety in numbers. EVERYONE should know how to shoot the guns. If only 2 people do, it's not that hard for them to get shot. Remember the scene at the end of "The 3 Amigos?"

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#247677 - 06/29/12 03:47 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: MDinana]
Jeanette_Isabelle Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1807
Loc: Ocala, FL
Originally Posted By: MDinana
I'm not sure what you mean by 'not enough space.' Have you ever seen a car full of clowns (or a VW Beetle in the 60's?). Space is a commodity, especially in the US. You can fit 20-30 folks in a typical house if you really need to. Or look at the Navy and the term "hot bunking."

Sleeping on the floor is always an option. I was thinking about some of the other logistical problems. Is there enough space to store all of our needed supplies? Where do we cook for so many people?

Originally Posted By: MDinana
Oh, as for safety in numbers. EVERYONE should know how to shoot the guns. If only 2 people do, it's not that hard for them to get shot. Remember the scene at the end of "The 3 Amigos?"

Point. I have tried archery and I have good form. I have never transferred that to a gun.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"When you're up to your [neck] in alligators, it's hard to remember that your initial objective was to drain the swamp." -- Floridian proverb

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#247689 - 06/29/12 07:01 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Phaedrus Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2131
Loc: Great Plains
Personally I wouldn't waste much time worrying about a catastrophe that would make access to food, power, & water for a year. As has been stated, that truly constitutes an EOTWAWKI scenario. I don't feel there is a way to prepare for that no matter who you are. If you had a lot of land in a remote part of the country (perhaps bordering a wilderness reserve) you may be able to isolate yourself enough to protect your supplies. Realistically Alaska might be the only state in the union where you could get that remote. If you live in a city I think it's utterly impossible that you could live for a year with no resupply in a fixed location. Once all the supplies ran out, and we're talking a week or two, how would you be able to defend your years supply of food and water? Personally I think we're better off preparing for the stuff that's more likely to occur than worrying about the end of days.

That said, if it's truly something you're concerned about you probably should start trying to figure out how to live a lifestyle that puts a lot of distance between you and any metro area.
_________________________
“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” Naguib Mahfouz

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#247690 - 06/29/12 09:10 AM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 213
Loc: N.Cal.
Cooking for a large group on a normal kitchen stove is no big deal, cleanup is another matter. I have regularly cooked for 30 adults on
mine, 2 fridges and a 20 ft. freezer might be handy as long as you have power, so would a big double sink.

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#247691 - 06/29/12 12:47 PM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 325
Loc: Connecticut, USA
My plan for an TEOTWAWKI is pretty simple - do my best to live like people who are living TEOTWAWKI now. By this I mean, if you dropped me off in some remote impoverished village with no toilets, doctors, electricity, what have you, life would be hard. I might not make it. But people certainly do. We're just very used to a modern lifestyle. Humans don't need much to keep the a heart beating. Think simpler. If you really think you'll have good water access and a reasonable fuel supply (talking wood or other naturals here) buy yourself 500 lbs of dried stuff (beans, grains, etc) per person and have fun.

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#247695 - 06/29/12 02:31 PM Re: I Thought I Was Prepared [Re: roberttheiii]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 416
Loc: Somerset UK
Any chance of any familiy members being able to move, still each in their own property but in adjacent properties ?
That could be very valuable for sharing rescources and defensive arrangements.

In the present economic climate, you might be able to buy several adjacent foreclosed properties cheaply.

It does presume of course that one or two of you have neighbours willing to sell.
Remember that gardens that back onto each other from houses in different roads, are arguably as useful as being next door neighbours.

Or could everyone sell up, and pool rescources to buy a single very large property with ample room for all.

Plenty of ground is desireable, both for crop growing and for building another home for relatives, or parking mobile homes or RVs (this is probably prohibited normally, but who cares after TSHTF)

If considering PV, make very certain that you are getting a stand alone battery charging system and not a grid tied one.
A grid tied PV system can be worthwhile economicly whilst BAU continues, but gives NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER against power cuts.

Firearms are undoubetedly useful, but do not have too much faith in going armed, rememember that the other lot may be better armed, more numerous, or simply lucky.

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