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#245745 - 05/09/12 02:05 AM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: Russ]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Russ
Someone on the ship's bridge had to see the fishing boat and that information should have been relayed. If not, then the competency of the crews hired by the cruise lines really needs to be evaluated. What are they doing up there if the passengers are seeing things and the bridge crew is not? I may have answered my own question on competency.
Actually, it is quite possible that the the bridge crew didn't see the boat, or if they saw it they may not have realized it was in distress. It is a really big ocean, and this was a rather small (9 meter) fishing boat. In any kind of waves, a small boat is partially (or even completely) hidden from view when down in the troughs.

Understand that at sea the bridge crew is mostly concerned with not colliding with other large vessels. That means they are concentrating their view forward, not off to the sides. Small boats don't always show up that well on radar, and at sea ships probably have their radar set on longer ranges, to give early warning of other big ships in the area. Or they may have seen the fishing boat, realized they were not on a collision course, and then paid it no further mind. If it was somewhat far off, they might not see someone "...waving a red T-shirt, and ...waving a bright orange life jacket over his head...” if they didn't take the time to study it carefully. Note that the "...birders..... spotted the drifting fishing vessel with powerful binoculars..."

If you spend any time at all reading about shipwrecked sailors you will find many, many accounts of ships sailing right by and not seeing survivors in rafts or lifeboats. It has happened many times before. People who have not spent much time at sea have no idea of how tiny a small boat can seem when viewed against the immensity of the ocean.

I am reminded of when I was in grad school, I made several voyages on oceanographic ships. Once we were trying to find an instrument we had set out a day or two before. It was a relatively small peice of gear (much smaller than a skiff), but had a mast on top with a flag. It also had a radio homing beacon, so knew we were very close, and even knew which direction to look. Even so, with all hands looking intently, it still took quite an effort to find the darn thing.

I don't find it at all surprising that the bridge crew either didn't see it, or saw it but didn't realize it was in distress. The real issue was that when the birders saw it, the information that it was there and in distress was not relayed effectively to the bridge.
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"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
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#245765 - 05/09/12 04:27 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: AKSAR]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Many (true) sea survival stories include incidents of ships failing to see the survivor, even when flares and smoke signals were used.

Steven Callahan and the Robinson family come to mind as examples.
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- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#245769 - 05/09/12 07:37 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: Pete]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I'm revisiting this thread...

Originally Posted By: Pete
Does sound like a breakdown in communication.
I wonder if crew can be held responsible for not informing the captain properly??

Seems to point to the necessity of having something really tangible - like distress flares or smoke to signal emergencies.
After reading this, I am not convinced that a signal mirror would have changed the outcome of events.

Pete2


If it's true the bridge didn't see the boat, then the value of a signalling mirror is the moral of the story here.
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If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#245859 - 05/14/12 12:47 AM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Apparently the surviving Panamanian fisherman is suing Princess Cruise Line in Florida state court.

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#245862 - 05/14/12 12:49 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: ireckon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I'm revisiting this thread...

Originally Posted By: Pete
Does sound like a breakdown in communication.
I wonder if crew can be held responsible for not informing the captain properly??

Seems to point to the necessity of having something really tangible - like distress flares or smoke to signal emergencies.
After reading this, I am not convinced that a signal mirror would have changed the outcome of events.

Pete2


If it's true the bridge didn't see the boat, then the value of a signalling mirror is the moral of the story here.


Hard to believe there would not have been some sort of a mirrored/shiny surface on board the fishing vessel somewhere. One of the best things one can do when adrift at sea is start flashing, whether or not vessels and airplanes are in sight.
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#245864 - 05/14/12 01:34 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: Arney]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: Arney
Apparently the surviving Panamanian fisherman is suing Princess Cruise Line in Florida state court.

One has to wonder on what basis a FL state court would have any jurisdiction in such a case.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

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#245868 - 05/14/12 02:58 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: ILBob]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
From the original story "Princess Cruises, owned by Miami-based Carnival Cruise Lines" would be my first guess. Last I heard Miami was still in Florida even if lots of other parts of the state would wish it otherwise :-)

Originally Posted By: ILBob
Originally Posted By: Arney
Apparently the surviving Panamanian fisherman is suing Princess Cruise Line in Florida state court.

One has to wonder on what basis a FL state court would have any jurisdiction in such a case.


Other possibilities that can be used is that the Departure or Arrival cities are in a state.

Respectfully,

Jerry

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#245870 - 05/14/12 04:49 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: dougwalkabout]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
A lawsuit should reveal a better representation of the true facts, which are necessary for learning purposes here.
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#245881 - 05/14/12 07:05 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: dougwalkabout]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 831
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
Here is a link to a BBC story on the lawsuit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18055087

The BBC cites the UN Convention on the law of sea, which contains a "Duty to Render assistance."
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

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#245892 - 05/14/12 10:48 PM Re: Signalling a cruise ship? [Re: ireckon]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1418
Loc: Nothern Ontario
Originally Posted By: ireckon
A lawsuit should reveal a better representation of the true facts, which are necessary for learning purposes here.


I wanted to stay out of this thread, however the above comment deserves a comment in return.

Whether there is a lawsuit or not and whatever the outcome may be between the parties, it does not take this lawsuit..or any other for "learning purposes here."

In hundreds of past threads here, it has been discussed in many different forms that if you venture out onto the water, up into the mountains, trek through the desert etc, it is up to you and your group to ensure your own safety and well being. Bottom line, this means that you should never count any one person, group and or organization to come to your rescue in your time of need regardless who may of seen or heard you.

I am in no way, defending the actions or inaction of the ship crew, however had the fishermen in the boat had any amount of basic supplies, radio equipment and signalling gear, this thread would of been a footnote with a successful and probable better outcome instead of dragging on for almost as long now as the boat was adrift...
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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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