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#244231 - 04/01/12 07:53 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: dweste]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
My brother-in-law is a general surgeon. He's currently in high demand in a time that's not even close to TEOTWAWKI. I'm not understanding the concept of how his demand would suddenly go down when his "other patients die off". I have personally been the recipient of his medical care when we were outside the hospital, and he didn't have all his expensive tools at his disposal. I think most, or all, doctors have training in primitive care.

This is how you barter with this kind of guy: You give him a place to stay, make sure he's fed, etc., in order to keep him around. I don't have his expertise. I don't always need it, but when I need it, I NEED IT. There is no substitute for his skill set. It's quite different than being, for example, an auto mechanic where you have wide latitude to experiment and see if something will work.

On the flip side, the poor guy is clueless outside of medicine, as many doctors are. He would need someone like me for stuff that's common knowledge to people on this site.
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#244256 - 04/02/12 02:45 AM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: dweste]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Hmmm, I think I'll open up a small restaurant cafe, with a little live music bar next door. Bring in your fresh meat, fish, garden vegetables, quality spirits, and we'll talk prices.

Oh, and we've got fresh apple pie on Thursdays. And for $1 you can leave your help wanted/needed notes on the tackboard. Thanks for visiting the SHTF Cafe, and ya'll come back now ya hear.

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#244257 - 04/02/12 03:04 AM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: dweste]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Get a lot of decks of cards.
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"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#244296 - 04/02/12 03:37 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: hikermor]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
"once their patients die off"...I think I would agree that many of the initial victims will perish, but the drastically altered circumstances will be generating new patients, perhaps in very large numbers, due to degraded sanitation, environmental exposure, trauma from cleanup efforts, inadequate diet, psychological reaction to stress - you name it.

Have there been any historical instances of "surplus" medical personnel in disaster situations? I haven't heard of any, but I certainly haven't really considered the issue....


Note what I actually wrote

Quote:
barter after a TEOTWAWKI type event


A disaster, even a widespread one like a tsunami or hurricane is not a TEOTWAWKI type event that would be required to reduce us to a barter economy. TEOTWAWKI would make some very serious changes in the way things are very quickly for everyone. I don't see anyway that I can prepare for such an event, so I do not even try.

In the midst of a widespread disaster it is quite possible I might well make some trades. For instance, I might well trade some beef jerky for a bag of peanuts. But that kind of thing is not part of my planning.
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Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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#244297 - 04/02/12 03:44 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: ireckon]
ILBob Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 776
Loc: Northern IL
Originally Posted By: ireckon
My brother-in-law is a general surgeon. He's currently in high demand in a time that's not even close to TEOTWAWKI. I'm not understanding the concept of how his demand would suddenly go down when his "other patients die off". I have personally been the recipient of his medical care when we were outside the hospital, and he didn't have all his expensive tools at his disposal. I think most, or all, doctors have training in primitive care.

This is how you barter with this kind of guy: You give him a place to stay, make sure he's fed, etc., in order to keep him around. I don't have his expertise. I don't always need it, but when I need it, I NEED IT. There is no substitute for his skill set. It's quite different than being, for example, an auto mechanic where you have wide latitude to experiment and see if something will work.

On the flip side, the poor guy is clueless outside of medicine, as many doctors are. He would need someone like me for stuff that's common knowledge to people on this site.


How good is his bargaining position when the services of hundreds of thousands of similarly qualified people becomes available over a short period of time?

Keep in mind too that the fancy gizmos won't be available, severely limiting what surgeries can be performed at all, much less with a reasonable chance of success.

It seems quite possible that people like auto mechanics whose skills might well be more readily transfered to problems at hand could be in more demand.
_________________________
Warning - I am not an expert on anything having to do with this forum, but that won't stop me from saying what I think. smile

Bob

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#244301 - 04/02/12 06:01 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: ILBob]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: ILBob
How good is his bargaining position when the services of hundreds of thousands of similarly qualified people becomes available over a short period of time?

Keep in mind too that the fancy gizmos won't be available, severely limiting what surgeries can be performed at all, much less with a reasonable chance of success.

It seems quite possible that people like auto mechanics whose skills might well be more readily transfered to problems at hand could be in more demand.


OK, note taken, we'll just have to recognize we disagree on a fundamental assumption.
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#244303 - 04/02/12 06:14 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: dweste]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Docs, dentists, nurses, even vets will all be useful in a post-applesauce situation. Babies will continue to be born, accidents with sharp pointy things, you get the idea.

People who have zero skills to barter - any theoretical scientist. Most social scientists, pshychologists, those with PHDs in fine arts.

People I want to have around - Mechanical engineers, any engineer, welders, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, those with infantry training/military skills in general - paintballers need not apply - farmers, animal breeders/trainers. People who can make stuff with their hands and hand tools.

I'm taking Blast's advice and opening Bartertown.

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#244305 - 04/02/12 07:20 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: JBMat]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1628
Loc: Northern California
Good entertainers (comedians, actors, pro athletes, etc.) will be in demand after things settle down a bit. Actually, if I have no practical skill set or even if I do, then being funny or entertaining will have concrete value. Note that even in a down economy, people still figure out a way to pay for their entertainment.
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#244306 - 04/02/12 08:17 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: dweste]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1534
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
with the typical prepper storing a variety of grains like rice and barley...I'm sure an enterprising entrepreneur can supply the brewing tanks and bottle capping machine...spring water and the finest hops, rice, and best barley malt...adult beverages

how do you freeze dry hops? smile

the more I think about this, I may be on to something....



Edited by LesSnyder (04/02/12 08:20 PM)

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#244308 - 04/02/12 09:16 PM Re: What do you plan to barter? [Re: ireckon]
Teslinhiker Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1379
Originally Posted By: ireckon
My brother-in-law is a general surgeon. He's currently in high demand in a time that's not even close to TEOTWAWKI. I'm not understanding the concept of how his demand would suddenly go down when his "other patients die off". I have personally been the recipient of his medical care when we were outside the hospital, and he didn't have all his expensive tools at his disposal. I think most, or all, doctors have training in primitive care


My SO spent some years traveling and working for NGO's in some of the most hellish 3rd world countries and unsanitary conditions that you could not ever imagine. Although she is not in the medical field, at various times it was necessary for her to work with Doctors, Specialists, Nurses from all over Canada and the USA. Many of these people who had studied and who were trained in modern western medicine and under strict sanitary settings, had a very difficult time adjusting to "dirt medicine" techniques. Some of them could not adjust and were either sent home or left on their own accord. Based on my SO experiences, those who fared best, had previous military experience or had practiced/worked in small towns or communities where they were the only Doctor, Nurse etc and had to work in underfunded and under-equipped clinics with less then idea equipment, conditions etc.

Although I don't foresee any type of future in this thread that many imagine. It is worth noting though that health care professionals, even those with years of experience will have their skills tested, taxed and tempered by inadequate resources and less then idea clinical settings in any large scale disaster.

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Earth and sky, woods and fields, lakes and rivers, the mountain and the sea, are excellent schoolmasters, and teach some of us more than we can ever learn from books.

John Lubbock

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