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#241204 - 02/15/12 04:23 AM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: Richlacal]
Snake_Doctor
Unregistered


LOL! But in a land vehicle I don't have a pilot complaining about the wieght of the gear. Thanks guys, but no more flying for old Snake.

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#241228 - 02/15/12 01:06 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: Snake_Doctor
I don't know, but I do know that it's ground transportation for me from now on. Thanks for taking the time to look it up and get stats.


Statistics around the number of people or miles flown still shows flying as safer than ground travel. Look at the death rate of car crashes.
Main difference here is generally ground travel I'm in control so I can eleminate some of the highest causes such as not driving while texting, under the influence, etc.

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#241236 - 02/15/12 05:01 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
Tyber Offline
Sheriff
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 304
Loc: ST. Paul MN
Originally Posted By: Snake_Doctor
LOL! But in a land vehicle I don't have a pilot complaining about the wieght of the gear. Thanks guys, but no more flying for old Snake.



Snake:

While I can't directly speak to the pasts of anyone on this site, I can say that the hosting site, equipped.org has case file scenarios and analyst of real plane accidents. On equipped.org you will find several reports of accidents of people who crashed and survived to find there way home. Regrettably there are also reports of people who survived the Plane crash but did not survive to get home due to lack of preparedness.

This world is full of risks, many that we see, and many that are unseen. If you chose to not fly, that is your choice, and that is OK. There are those of us who do fly, and prefer to do our best within reason to prepare for things if they do go wrong. Much like we can't fault you for choosing to not fly, it would be expected you would not seek to find flaws in our desire to fly and prepare ourselves.

Tyber

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#241237 - 02/15/12 05:25 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
JerryFountain Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 418
Loc: St. Petersburg, Florida
Snake,

A quick look at the NTSB statistics (1 found 96 first) showed 1681 total GA accidents. Only 323 were fatal. That means that people survived 1358 accidents (some people almost certainly survived in the other 323). For airlines it was 21 total and 3 fatal. If you don't want to fly, don't. Just don't blame it on the safety of the transportation.

Respectfully,

Jerry

P.S. I have been in 3 light aircraft accidents - and survived 2 of them!! :-)

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#241242 - 02/15/12 07:26 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: JerryFountain]
PSM Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 77
Loc: Cochise Co., AZ
Originally Posted By: JerryFountain
P.S. I have been in 3 light aircraft accidents - and survived 2 of them!! :-)


RIP, Jerry. wink


Edited by PSM (02/15/12 07:26 PM)

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#241247 - 02/15/12 10:07 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
AKSAR Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
Alaska is generally regarded as being a dangerous place to fly. While I don't have official statistics handy, the combination of frequent and severe bad weather, mountains, remote and poorly maintained airstrips, and bush landings (gravel bars, tundra, glaciers, beaches, etc) means that we have many crashes and many fatalities. However, many people do survive crashes in Alaska.

Below is a random and incomplete sample from recent years in Alaska, of small aircraft crashes in which people survived.

Cook Inlet plane crash survivors live to tell harrowing tale : Cook Inlet water is very cold, year around.

1 killed, 1 injured in Alaska plane crash

Details emerge in Triumvirate Glacier plane crash "I will give him kudos that he was fortunate to have a survival kit that allowed him to survive in those elements," Shaver said.

Family of 4 survives Bush Alaska plane crash that killed 2 others Two C-130s and a Pavehawk participated in the rescue.

Three rescued following Alaska plane crash near Rainy Pass

In GCI crash, grassroots search and rescue led to 'horrible' crash scene This was the crash that killed former Senator Ted Stevens. Four of nine aboard survived. There are photos and preliminary NTSB info here.

Seasoned Alaska pilot recounts Knik Glacier crash landing , Part 2, andPart 3. PJs, a C-130, and a Pavehawk help in the rescue. A Blackhawk crashes trying to fly them out. Who says we don't invest major resources trying to rescue civilians?

I have only grabbed examples from the last few years where at least some people aboard survived a crash. There are certainly many other examples where all aboard perished, but to say everyone always dies is just not so. I have a hard time believing that flying in the Southwest is anymore dangerous than it is in Alaska.

My own first priority when bush flying is, DRESS FOR CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND! Some of these folks had to wait awhile, often injured, before rescue.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

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#241249 - 02/15/12 10:21 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Great stuff AKSAR, thanks.

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#241259 - 02/16/12 01:24 AM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
I have a hard time believing that flying in the Southwest is anymore dangerous than it is in Alaska.

My own first priority when bush flying is, DRESS FOR CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND! Some of these folks had to wait awhile, often injured, before rescue.


The most likely unique factor about flying in the Southwest would be the wide variation in altitude (and hence temperature and environment) over a very short distance as a flight transitions from low altitude deserts to relatively high mountains. This makes dressing for conditions on the ground somewhat tricky - best to dress in layers....

On reflection, of course, Alaska sees some fairly major variations in altitude, like from sea level to 20,320 feet ASL, which does indeed dwarf the altitude range present in the southwest.

I have done a fair amount of work related flying, as well as SAR related flying, in the southwest, primarily around Tucson in the vicinity of mountains. Over the years, I have lost more colleagues to automobile related mishaps than to plane crashes, just as the statistics would predict.

Thank you for some very revealing stories.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#241500 - 02/19/12 11:49 PM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: ]
anpf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/18/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Perú

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#241504 - 02/20/12 12:02 AM Re: AVIATION SURVIVAL KITS. WHAT'S THE POINT. [Re: anpf]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Great story. One of the classics on my bookshelf is The Survival Book, by Paul Nesbitt, Alonzo Pond, and William Allen. From the Preface - "This book has only one purpose - to aid and insure your survival after emergency aircraft landings regardless of geographic location."

Published in 1959, its language and some of its techniques are dated, sometimes charmingly, but most of its principles are still valid today. I still find it a valuable basic reference.

So someone must e walking away from airplane crashes.....
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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