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#239920 - 01/23/12 02:01 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: haertig]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Booger hook off the bang button until you're ready to fire.

Pretty simple training if you ask me.

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#239967 - 01/24/12 12:53 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Let's look at those police stats from a different point of view.

Suppose we accept that the NY police officers represent a "reasonable test group" of human beings who have gone through training with a handgun. Maybe what the "22 incidences of unintentional discharges" are telling us ... is that it's much harder (than we think) to effectively control your mind and your body - when someone else is literally trying to kill you with a gun.

Would we really do any better than the NYPD under similar circumstances??

Pete2

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#239970 - 01/24/12 01:11 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: Pete]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
My law enforcement training is rather old. Revolvers were state of the art when I was on the range, but it was pointed out that the real world was very different from the training we received, although we did have some "shoot -no shoot scenarios" where we watched a situation projected on a screen and had to draw and fire, or not, depending upon the situation.

I flunked,although I drew, fired,and nailed the bad guy who was holding a weapon. I did not identify the woman and child just over his left shoulder. The real world is a whole lot different from any firing range.

It would be interesting to hear the experience from anyone who has actually been in a real world gunfight.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#239976 - 01/24/12 04:05 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: Pete]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Pete
Maybe what the "22 incidences of unintentional discharges" are telling us ... is that it's much harder (than we think) to effectively control your mind and your body - when someone else is literally trying to kill you with a gun.

If someone were trying to kill me with a gun, I drew mine, and fired, that would not be "unintentional" nor would it be illustrative of a lack of control of my mind and body.

I imagine when they're saying "unintentional" that they're talking about people that give themselves a case of "Glock Leg", shoot their locker in the dressing room, etc. I find it hard to believe that someone would claim to be in the middle of a gunfight when they "unintentionally discharged their firearm". Possibly if they shot another officer in friendly fire. But not as a typical excuse in the middle of a shootout.

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#239985 - 01/24/12 02:37 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: Pete]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pete
Would we really do any better than the NYPD under similar circumstances??


Yes, we really would. They were trained with a dangerous, stupid practice and they reaped what they sowed. People who are trained correctly are hugely less likely to have an ND.

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#239998 - 01/24/12 05:00 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: quick_joey_small]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
"I flunked,although I drew, fired,and nailed the bad guy who was holding a weapon. I did not identify the woman and child just over his left shoulder. The real world is a whole lot different from any firing range. It would be interesting to hear the experience from anyone who has actually been in a real world gunfight."

First, I pointed out that I've never been in a real gunfight myself. Hope things stay that way.

I did talk to one guy who worked as a Gov't agent for many years. He said he had been in one real exchange of gunfire. His comment was that his heart was beating so fast, and he was so preoccupied with the situation, that he actually didn't remember even drawing his weapon. Next thing he knew - his pistol was in his hand and he was firing at the attackers. So there's a situation where "training took over".

Pete2

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#240007 - 01/24/12 06:57 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to [Re: Pete]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3819
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pete
I did talk to one guy who worked as a Gov't agent for many years. He said he had been in one real exchange of gunfire. His comment was that his heart was beating so fast, and he was so preoccupied with the situation, that he actually didn't remember even drawing his weapon. Next thing he knew - his pistol was in his hand and he was firing at the attackers. So there's a situation where "training took over".


This is very normal. The saying goes something like "you won't rise to the occasion, you will fall to the level of your training."

I've taken classes that included stress inoculation -- force-on-force scenarios designed to cause a full-on body alarm reaction. I experienced tachycardia, and a degree of tunnel vision and auditory exclusion, even knowing that we were using Simunitions and it wasn't real. The more we did the easier it got, and my physical symptoms of stress were reduced.

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