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#239381 - 01/15/12 08:20 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: ]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4509
Loc: SOCAL
As Bingley correctly points out, what they refer to as "navigational devices" seems to be power to the diesel-electric drive and steerage. That said, the Captain is always at fault for running aground. In this case whomever was in charge of navigation and keeping power to the screws is also at fault. It's fine to say let the investigation run its course, but the fact is a ship that was perfectly fine Friday morning is now lying on its side with casualties.

One article indicates they passed closely by shore to show off to the natives. Cute, until you lose power or sunspots or solar maxima screw up your GPS navigation. The point is that it doesn't matter why they hit a rock that wasn't supposed to be there, they hit it. Whether the rock grew bigger since their last cruise through that area or the tide was too low, or their navigation was off by 30/100/300 feet -- it just doesn't matter. The dog-ate-my-homework excuse just doesn't work here.

There's a reason I actively avoid cruise lines. YMMV

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#239382 - 01/15/12 08:54 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: AKSAR]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
...divers have saved at least two people who were trapped inside the ship, and recovered a couple of bodies...

I read that the two bodies found today were of two elderly gentlemen. They were wearing lifevests and reportedly found near an evacuation station. Sounds like these two did what they were supposed to.

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#239385 - 01/15/12 10:20 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2741
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Well, I'm glad that I'm not being tried by you frown A previous accident is not prima facia proof of guilt.


It sure isn't, but the decisions I make regarding the safety of my family do not require proof of guilt. Correlation is enough to start with.

Quote:
At this point I would ask the membership to refrain from drawing over hasty conclusions. We just do not know at present.


We don't know yet why they ran aground, agreed. And we certainly can't count on the news to have gotten the reported details right. However, the information we do have indicates that they did not send a timely Mayday signal, that they hadn't held evacuation drills, and that the evacuation was at least partially botched. I respectfully submit that this allows us to draw some preliminary conclusions.

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#239387 - 01/15/12 10:36 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 213
Loc: N.Cal.
I can't believe, or find it hard to, that they were not monitoring the bottom contour, heck any cheap fish finder will do that! Point one 45*
ahead & sides to know what you might run into! Yep I know a "big" ship does not turn or stop on a dime but if you know the contour you
also know if you are in the channel.
Check out the cruise Line Name, Costa should never have had a issue
like this regardless of where you board. Regardless of passenger boat drill's you should at least be able to count on the crew being able to keep their heads, not panic and properly respond to a real emergency.
I remember Murphy had a line that fit this situation, Something about plans and training never surviving first contact.
This disaster just proves the point:
If Something, Anything really happens you must be prepared to deal with it yourself.


Edited by frediver (01/15/12 11:22 PM)

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#239396 - 01/16/12 12:07 AM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
The shoreline within spitting distance was a good indicator that it was getting shallow. Or is that a hasty conclusion?
_________________________
Gary








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#239407 - 01/16/12 02:55 AM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
THIRDPIG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 81
I learn of this a day after we got off our cruise ship the Norwegian Sky, after a cuise of the Bahama's.....

A few random thoughts the muster and drill on the ship consisted of meeting at the area my room was to report to, where they showed us how to put on a life jacket. That was it ,nothing about the life boat, how its lowered down how to board ect , what to wear bring, nothing.



I had on me or in a bag next to my chair while swimming my Mission wallet with a few hundred bucks, my work ID ,DL,credit card, and health care card. In the outside slots I had a Fenix AAA led, Space Pen, Attwood Pry Baby. My spyderco H1 Dragon Fly was always clipped to me.

In our room was a pouch with Leatherman, extra light and Batts. and a first aid pouch .
You'll need to go to your room as thats where your life jackets are. I could be to my room in a few minutes from anywhere on board. If everyone acted at first hint something was a miss they all would have had more then enough time and then some.

something i've learned along the way and partly due to my job as a FF, is be one of the first to act.Don't wait and don't always follow what your told.

We all should have learned that from 911. they told those in building 2 to stay put nothing to fear.... same as the crew told the cruise ship guests.......

Oh as for the cruise it self,Ill say this i don;t like crowds or lines, some of my vacations have been canoeing the Yukon, hiking AZ canyons, hunting Montana and the like.

I LOVED the cruise !! tons of spots to be alone if you wish, and nice shows,food,pools and great ports to snorkle at. LOVED IT


Edited by THIRDPIG (01/16/12 03:14 AM)

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#239415 - 01/16/12 06:41 AM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 832
Loc: Southern California
On a tangent subject, it's been my observation that most people's initial reaction to an alarm is to ask each other "what's going on?" instead of taking action.

A couple of years ago I was staying in a hotel when the fire alarm tripped. It took me about a minute to grab my jacket, shoes, and briefcase. Even so while I was headed for the fire escape, people were still standing aroung gawking.


Edited by Mark_R (01/16/12 06:42 AM)
_________________________
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane

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#239418 - 01/16/12 07:59 AM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Keel haul that scurvy knave of a Captain! Oh wait a minute,it might not be his fault,What's that you say?Yeah,it might have been a mechanical error,therefore the Captain is not at fault,NOT!What scuttlebutt are we talking about here,A 7/11 or something?The Captain is Responsible for Every molecule of that ship,AND 1000 Linear& Cubic yds to Starboard,Port,Fore & Aft, 24/7-Period!The conclusions are valid as soon as She runs aground!He(the captain) will be Lucky,to man the bilge of an Andy Gump,should he be released from his irons!How many of the crew,were on watch?He will be very lucky if he's tried in a UN Maritime court of law,they may end up fining him 50 bucks or something like that,lol!

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#239424 - 01/16/12 12:52 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
THIRDPIG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 81
Mark the sad thing is thats the norm.... Its been my experiance that most folks don't exit for an alarm unless told to or other factors are present, smoke or the smell of and so forth .

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#239438 - 01/16/12 04:32 PM Re: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster [Re: Dagny]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Wow, now they're reporting that the captain deliberately veered off the approved course to bring the ship closer to the coastal town and impress the locals and that's when they ran aground and ripped open the hull. No wonder the captain couldn't wait to get off the ship!

I also read that only 696 of the 3,206 passengers had not yet participated in a safety drill at the time of the incident. The ship ran aground three and half hours after that last batch of passengers had boarded and a safety drill was scheduled within the required 24-hour window after that group had embarked.

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