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#238288 - 12/30/11 07:33 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: Pete]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Pete the problem with that is you're still responsible for every round put downrange. It would suck to kill a kid or someone that's walking down the street a mile away.

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#238292 - 12/30/11 08:10 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: North Carolina
Having been in a few gunfights, even one where I had to draw a pistol quickly, if you pull the gun you had better be ready to kill. The Hollywood wounding or scaring someone with a warning shot is not practical. If you are threatened enough to pull it, doing anything other than killing is likely to make the situation worse. You also HAVE TO KNOW where that bullet is going. You have to be aware of what is behind and around your target. You are risking someone else's life if you do anything other than engage the threat. If you do not intend to destroy something, do not pull the gun out, find some other way of mitigating threat, even if that is just getting your own self out of the danger. Guns escalate the situation, rarely do they reduce the threat without killing someone. Make sure it is the person who is the threat and not you or an innocent.

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#238297 - 12/30/11 08:32 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
policebodyarmor Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/11
Posts: 5
Loc: VERMONT
well, a gun fight is really scary coz it will cost your life.


--
http://www.bulletproofvestshop.com/lightweight-bullet-proof-vests/

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#238301 - 12/30/11 08:55 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: policebodyarmor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: policebodyarmor
well, a gun fight is really scary coz it will cost your life.


Imagine how scary it would be to be in one without a gun.

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#238302 - 12/30/11 09:00 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: NightHiker]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
intent to kill


I'll put on my instructor hat for a moment: That's not exactly correct. If, as a civilian in the US, you use a gun defensively, it should be to stop the threat. When the threat stops, stop shooting. Not before, and not after.

We train to aim for the center of mass, because that gives you the best chance to disable the attacker. Certainly, that can kill someone. But your intent should be to stop the threat.

As for legal issues, I'm not an attorney and this isn't legal advice. I strongly urge you to consult a competent attorney in your jurisdiction if you carry a gun as a civilian.

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#238304 - 12/30/11 09:21 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: chaosmagnet]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6583
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
If, as a civilian in the US, you use a gun defensively, it should be to stop the threat. When the threat stops, stop shooting. Not before, and not after.


Per recent training I received, LEO in California also shoot to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill. And, yes you are aiming for COM, so in some respects the distinction is academic;nontheless, it is significant.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

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#238305 - 12/30/11 09:23 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: chaosmagnet]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1384
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
As for legal issues, I'm not an attorney and this isn't legal advice. I strongly urge you to consult a competent attorney in your jurisdiction if you carry a gun as a civilian.


A starting point may be firearm law manuals, if someone wrote a good one for your state. (The one for my state, for instance, has gun laws by counties and even by towns. This sort of variation makes me nuts. We aren't walking encyclopedias of arbitrary legal codes, so how can we make sure we don't break the law when we go somewhere new?) That's still no substitute for professional advice, because we civilians can easily misunderstand law or the application of law.

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#238307 - 12/30/11 09:25 PM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: hikermor]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Per recent training I received, LEO in California also shoot to stop the threat, not necessarily to kill. And, yes you are aiming for COM, so in some respects the distinction is academic;nontheless, it is significant.


I'm not a law enforcement certified instructor, so I'm careful to speak only to civilian use of force when wearing that hat.

Each law enforcement agency has a use of force policy and every sworn officer receives ongoing training and is responsible for staying within that policy.

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#238335 - 12/31/11 01:07 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: quick_joey_small]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1347
I agree with the principle that the shooter should be 100% responsible for every round fired downrange. In practice, it may be difficult to always reach that standard ... but it's the right attitude.

"Guns escalate the situation, rarely do they reduce the threat without killing someone."

Since you've been there - and i haven't - I will think seriously about what you said.

Pete2

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#238338 - 12/31/11 01:11 AM Re: A gunfight might not be like you expect it to be [Re: Pete]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2946
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Pete
I agree with the principle that the shooter should be 100% responsible for every round fired downrange. In practice, it may be difficult to always reach that standard ... but it's the right attitude.


It's also the law, everywhere in the US that I know of.

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