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#236997 - 12/07/11 11:37 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Denis]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Denis
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen
Denis,

Nice Amundsen quote. And, not to speak ill of the dead, but if you study some of the things that went wrong with the Scott expedition and compare them to the Amundsen expedition, that quote becomes all the more meaningful.

HJ
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Adventures In Stoving

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#237012 - 12/08/11 05:43 AM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
Nice Amundsen quote. And, not to speak ill of the dead, but if you study some of the things that went wrong with the Scott expedition and compare them to the Amundsen expedition, that quote becomes all the more meaningful.

I've actually read a bit about the differences between the 2 expeditions; it was from that reading that I picked up this quote. The context definitely makes the quote much richer.

I think its valuable to learn from the successes and failures of the past, and that we can do so without being disrespectful of those who failed.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#237015 - 12/08/11 06:13 AM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: raven397]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
For those looking to know more about the Candice, the woman who died, her blog is still up: Adventures of an Alaskan Bush Teacher

She only has 17 posts covering her short time in Alaska, but it provides an insight into who she was and what she was doing. I am richer for taking the time to read through her writings and am glad they are still online; I think it's a fitting tribute to an intelligent, caring and adventurous young woman who was truly living life.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#237016 - 12/08/11 06:20 AM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Denis]
hikermor Online   content
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 6076
Loc: southern Cal
I have always been impressed by the words that Scott wrote in his journal as he lay dying, eleven miles from a life saving supply cache - "We took chances, we know we took them. Things have come out against us, therefore we have no cause for regret."

Talk about your British stiff upper lip! You hae to be really tough to maintain that perspective in your final hours.
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#237033 - 12/08/11 06:12 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Madcat39]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: Madcat39
Don't be to hard on her. If a wolf pack of 3 or more animals comes for you, I doubt it matters if you are jogging along with your hand on your ipod or your .357, you are still dead meat.


I am very sorry this poor person lost her life, but I'll take the boom stick over the Ipod seven days a week. Even if she was not Bob Munden, getting off one shot may have been sufficient to send the wolves packing.

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#237037 - 12/08/11 06:28 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: hikermor]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
I have always been impressed by the words that Scott wrote in his journal as he lay dying, eleven miles from a life saving supply cache - "We took chances, we know we took them. Things have come out against us, therefore we have no cause for regret."

Talk about your British stiff upper lip! You hae to be really tough to maintain that perspective in your final hours.
Or the other British gentleman (Captain Oates?) who, when he realized his weakened state was holding the others back and therefore threatening their lives, walked out into the snowy cold, never to return, saying, "I am just going outside and may be some time."

HJ
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#237043 - 12/08/11 07:41 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: raven397]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
OT: seeing the quotes from those explorers has gotten me to reading about them again. Good Lord, they were tough SOBs. Like woodpecker lips, but colder.

Makes us all look like nancy-boys... except for Sue. I bet she could school Amundsen and Shackleton on a few things. smile

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#237148 - 12/10/11 12:51 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
OT: seeing the quotes from those explorers has gotten me to reading about them again. Good Lord, they were tough SOBs. Like woodpecker lips, but colder.


It is quite interesting to see the difference in how Scott and Amundsen are portrayed in Norway and U.K. The British litterary worship the "stiff upper lip" attitude, and that has made Scott into a national ikon. In U.K., Ammundsen is (or was!) almost portrayed as a cheater - racing to the south Pole and snagging the No. 1. title right in front of their national hero. (Amundsens intentions were kept secret untill they were well under way - even Nansen (who lent him his boat) and his own crew didn't know they would go to the south Pole).

The Norwegians respect Scotts superhuman achievements, but also are rather blunt when they say that the "stiff upper lip" is the fundamental root cause of Scott's failure. Press on, no matter what: That attitude may be fine when your only option is to get home - but it is a recipie for disaster in planning, preparations and heading out into the wild.

I really recommend reading about those two expeditions.


Edited by MostlyHarmless (12/10/11 12:53 PM)

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#237232 - 12/11/11 10:23 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: raven397]
bigmbogo Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 82
I read the investigation report and it made quite an impression. Its restrained and factual style made the tragedy that much more heart-wrenching and horrible.

Then, I read some of the comments here, and I am dumbstruck. It seems like people having been laying in wait, just ready to pile on the poor dead victim. "She was stupid and should have known better".

What should she have "known better"? This was either the first, or one of the very first, documented fatal wolf attacks in North America, ever. So maybe she should have known there were wolves around. But who would have thought there was even a remote chance of someone traveling a road in broad daylight would get eaten by wolves? Apparently some of the armchair Alaskan experts feel they could have predicted such a freakish and unheard-of event.

It was basically unthinkable. The first time someone gets gored by a whitetail deer while gardening in their back yard, will you people say, "Well there are deer everywhere. She should have known better. She was stupid and deserved to die. Good for our gene pool."

This was an informative article. I learned something I didn't know previously. And some of the information shared here in the follow-up has been helpful. But some of the comments have been truly shameful. Shame on you.

David

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#237238 - 12/11/11 11:40 PM Re: Fatal wolf attack in Alaska [Re: bigmbogo]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1058
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: bigmbogo
.....I read some of the comments here, and I am dumbstruck. It seems like people having been laying in wait, just ready to pile on the poor dead victim. "She was stupid and should have known better".

What should she have "known better"? This was either the first, or one of the very first, documented fatal wolf attacks in North America, ever. So maybe she should have known there were wolves around. But who would have thought there was even a remote chance of someone traveling a road in broad daylight would get eaten by wolves? Apparently some of the armchair Alaskan experts feel they could have predicted such a freakish and unheard-of event....But some of the comments have been truly shameful......

Well said, David, well said. I have refrained from commenting on this story, since I didn't feel I had anything concrete to add that wasn't in the report. And like you, I felt that some of the comments were way out of line.

I've see a lot of discussion on this and other forums about the dangers of attack by wild animals...bears, cougars, wolves, etc. I have lived, hiked, camped, hunted, climbed, and paddled my whole life. I have been in Alaska for the last 25 years. Before that I grew up in the Pacific NW, then spent years in the Rocky Mountain region. My own view is that wild animal attacks are way down the list of things to worry about when out in the wilds. This is not to say that there is no risk, or that one shouldn't take reasonable precautions such as bear spray, but the odds are actually very low.

While it is worthwhile to analize incidents to learn what can be learned, many people seem to delight in ridiculing the people involved. People tend to forget that we all make mistakes. If we are honest with ourselves, we all know we have done things that in retrospect seem pretty dumb. I know I sure have. I try to learn from those mistakes and move on.
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