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#236887 - 12/06/11 11:54 AM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Phaedrus]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
..... I can scarcely imagine what a cat that size could do, or what possible good a knife would do you. Obviously it would be a lot better than nothing, but I have to think your odds of successfully fighting a mountain line with a knife are pretty slim.


I have personally seen two mountain lions in northern Minnesota. The DNR finally admits that they are present here. I also see wolves, coyotes, and bears on occasion.

What you say is true about the big cats, but also coyotes, wolves, bears....any large predator. The problem is, that alone and stripped of our technology, we are an easy meal for any large predator.

With tip down on the belt, I'll take the slim chance over no chance at all.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#236890 - 12/06/11 05:01 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Phaedrus]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Standard advice, in the event that you should be face to face with a big pussy cat, is to stand your ground, and make yourself look as large as possible (put your kids up on your shoulders,, raise your poncho up high, etc.).

If Mr. Cat is stalking you (very, very unlikely) you will probably never know what hit you. They stalk from on high, and sever the spinal cord at the neck with the first bite.

Again, attacks are very rare.
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#236891 - 12/06/11 05:15 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Phaedrus]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: Phaedrus
Obviously it would be a lot better than nothing, but I have to think your odds of successfully fighting a mountain line with a knife are pretty slim.

I found a site, Cougar Info, that lists confirmed cougar attacks and there have been people who've successfully defended themselves against a cougar with only a knife, for example:

61-year-old David Parker was attacked by a 100 pound (45 Kg) adult, male cougar at about 7:30 p.m. on his nightly stroll along a road near his home about two kilometres outside of Port Alice ... As the cat clawed and bit into his neck, face, and head, Parker managed to open his knife's three-inch blade, stab the cougar a few times, and eventually slit its throat, leaving the cat to bleed in the middle of the gravel road.

A Moscow, Idaho man, unwilling to be identified, reported he was attacked by a mountain lion at about 6:00 in the evening while camping southwest of Elk River, Idaho ... During the struggle, the victim grabbed a knife and stabbed the mountain lion in the side, causing it to run into the timber.


That said, there have been cases where knives have been used, but didn't seem to have as effective as hoped.

After reviewing these accounts, I'd wager a solid fixed blade would give you an above average chance of surviving a cougar attack. I've also seen recommendations for using bear spray as a defensive tool against cougars.

Actually, this same site has some good do's & don'ts for avoiding and/or surviving a cougar encounter and regarding weapons it says:

Use anything available as a weapon if the lion displays aggression but generally not if you must turn your back, crouch, kneel, or bend over to get one
  • Carry mace or pepper spray where you can easily reach it
  • Use fists, sticks, rocks, tools, a pocket knife, a bicycle, whatever you can hit with, throw, and/or use as a shield
  • Target an eye with your thumbs, fingers, or a weapon

Fortunately, cougar attacks seem as rare, if not rarer, than bear attacks.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#236893 - 12/06/11 07:09 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Denis]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands
A local mom fought off a cougar (that snatched her 4 year old) with a water bottle.

A water scientist survived a cat attack with a pair of forceps to the eye.

An elderly couple in CA survived using a ball point pen.

etc. etc.

Cats don't like to be injured. If they don't sever your spine
right away, it seems you have a pretty good chance of driving them off.

A knife or pepper spray could work. Many around here carry handguns for lion, wolf and bear protection.

bowhunter twice stalked by mtn lion.

http://m.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2011/sep/29/bowhunter-seems-lure-unwanted-predators/

and grandma and the wolf
http://outdoorsmans.blogspot.com/2011/10/woman-attacked-by-wolf-and-wins.html


Edited by clearwater (12/06/11 07:10 PM)

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#236897 - 12/06/11 07:52 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: TeacherRO]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Heck, they had a mountain lion show up in the Chicago area a few years back.

I'm more than convinced that large cats are the finest predators on land. They are amazing.

Traveling in groups is probably the best defense, wearing a backpack should help a lot, ... and praying. As others have said, carrying a knife gives me peace of mind - whether justified or not. I just hope I'd have the presence of mind to grab it and fight back.

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#236898 - 12/06/11 08:31 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: NightHiker]
Denis Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 631
Loc: Calgary, AB
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Carrying a knife for the sole purpose of defending yourself against a mountain lion is pretty much the same thing as hiking with a lightning rod to protect yourself during a storm.

While that's true, how many of us are not going to have a knife on us when we head into the woods?

Given we have a knife anyway, it usually takes no more effort to carry one's knife in an easily accessible position (not necessarily tip up) than it does to lash it on the back of a pack or tuck it away in some compartment. This would seem to be the type of low cost / low effort risk mitigation strategy appropriate for a low probability / high consequence risk like a wildlife attack.

Between this and the type of possible risks ireckon mentioned earlier in the thread, it seems like a good idea to have quick access to a knife at all times.
_________________________
Victory awaits him who has everything in order — luck, people call it. Defeat is certain for him who has neglected to take the necessary precautions in time; this is called bad luck. Roald Amundsen

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#236909 - 12/06/11 09:51 PM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Denis]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
I hear-tell the latest in tacti-cool knife carry is: tip-down on the centerline of your chest. In other words, curl up on the ground in a fetal position like you're getting the crud kicked out of you and put the knife handle near where your hands are.

Personally, I normally carry mine on my waist on my right side. At least one knife should be readily accessible, if only for convenience sake.
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#236926 - 12/07/11 04:26 AM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: TeacherRO]
tomfaranda Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/14/08
Posts: 301
Loc: Croton on Hudson, NY
The comment about mountain lions severing their victim's spine - I was under the impression that most big cats killed their dinner by getting a tight grip on the throat and suffocating them. Am I incorrect? A 100 lb. mountain lion severing a spine on the first bite seems a long shot. FULL DISLOSURE: never seen a couga, except in a zoo.

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#236933 - 12/07/11 06:05 AM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: tomfaranda]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
My understanding is Cougars are ambush predators,so an attack is likely(if at all) from above & behind or just from behind,pushing one to the ground,& going straight for the back of the neck,of which is the spine & just so happens to be our most vulnerable area for a mortal wound.In theory,it would take one bite to drop a human,Cougars reflexes are 5x our own if not more!Statistics prove nothing in the Great Outdoors,Murphy makes darn sure of that!Personally,I choose to be Equipped to Survive,Afterall that's the whole point,Isn't it?

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#236936 - 12/07/11 06:45 AM Re: Tip up carry? I just don't get it [Re: Richlacal]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: Richlacal
Statistics prove nothing in the Great Outdoors,


Actually the chances are that careful analysis of accident data will improve your odds of survival considerably. Prepare for the most likely events first, and spend less effort and resources on the least likely, some of which are wildly improbable. The better your comprehension of the hazard profile facing you, the more likely you will handle the situation competently.
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Geezer in Chief

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