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#235614 - 11/14/11 04:07 AM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: Richlacal]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Richlacal
Japan can Never be used as an example,at least here in the USA!I'll get right to the point,Have you ever seen a Japanese Bum,lol?Besides Japanese what other language is spoken in Japan on a normal basis?What diversity exists or ever did exist in Japan?How many years did Japan receive refugees from other countries?Any Illegal aliens there?Are there any cities,towns,villages,apt buildings that someone other than Japanese are the majority of residence? In other words Japan only has 1 culture,& that is Japanese!We in the USA will Never be anywhere near the mindset of japan,because we are diverse,& we will alway's have criminals,looters,etc. It is good to keep in mind, so one stays on their toes when factoring into their preparedness!


Yes, the homeless and the vagrant do exist in Japan. Yes, Japan has a serious problem with illegal aliens (many imported laborers from the Middle East and from Southeast Asia with no means of going home). No, Japan is not as uniform as most people think. There are some serious class divisions and ethnic tensions even in Japan (for example, burakumin and Japanese citizens of Korean descent). The depth of discrimination against such people has no analogue in the American context unless you are thinking of the KKK. There are some very nasty things in Japan like anywhere else.

But these objections you raise are beside the point. I'm not saying we should be like Japan in all ways. But Japan just provides an example of cooperation during times of crisis. The article in the first post of this thread is a good example of how such cooperation is possible at the community level in the United States. Why must we surrender to the bad elements of our culture, when we can strive to change it? I'm not asking anyone to change the world, but I'm just asking my readers to start with themselves. There are some preppers with a very selfish, almost paranoid "me against them" mentality. As likeminded hobbyists, the first thing we can do is help others realize they're not in danger of being impaled by their neighbors. ETS has mostly very level-headed people, but some of the other forum I belong to -- well, I guess that's where work can be done.

I think hikermor, who replied in an earlier post to the thread, is realistic in his expectations. In fact, I agree with him. But we can at least try to leave a place better than we found it, even if only in small, individual ways.

Now, I'll note you seem to think diversity means lack of cooperation, and uniformity means cooperation. If so, I fear you have underestimated our human capacity to be jerks. It wouldn't be too hard to find a relatively uniform society where people are self-centered, selfish, uncaring, etc. Self-centeredness didn't develop in the US because of immigration or cultural diversity, if so, we would have had a long history of it. It came as a result of our capitalist culture, which is responsible for all forms of entertainment that appeals to our baser impulses. On the other hand, we can also underestimate human generosity in a diverse society hooked on reality shows and young actresses acting like harlots on coke. Sometimes a helping hand will reach across barriers of race, language, culture, etc., without expectations of acknowledgement or reward. Welcome to the human race!

DB

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#235615 - 11/14/11 05:13 AM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: Bingley]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Good Luck to you on your endeavours in New Jersey,& I will reply,Welcome to The real world! wink

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#235782 - 11/17/11 08:17 PM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: Richlacal]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Richlacal
Good Luck to you on your endeavours in New Jersey,& I will reply,Welcome to The real world! wink


And exactly what is that supposed to mean?
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#235792 - 11/17/11 10:05 PM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: Bingley]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: Bingley
[ Self-centeredness didn't develop in the US because of immigration or cultural diversity, if so, we would have had a long history of it. It came as a result of our capitalist culture, which is responsible for all forms of entertainment that appeals to our baser impulses. ..............Sometimes a helping hand will reach across barriers of race, language, culture, etc., without expectations of acknowledgement or reward. DB


Freedom, prosperity, and the highest overall standard of living the world has ever known also came as a result of our capitalist culture for those who work for it. Although I love the daily dose of soci@lism, I can't help but notice the substitution of 'self-centered' for 'self-reliance'. We on this forum strive to be self sufficient and prepared. Soci@lists, on the other hand, love to shower the unprepared and unproductive with other peoples money so they can maintain power or calm their inner guilt.
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The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#235810 - 11/18/11 05:29 AM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
Originally Posted By: Bingley
[ Self-centeredness didn't develop in the US because of immigration or cultural diversity, if so, we would have had a long history of it. It came as a result of our capitalist culture, which is responsible for all forms of entertainment that appeals to our baser impulses. ..............Sometimes a helping hand will reach across barriers of race, language, culture, etc., without expectations of acknowledgement or reward. DB


Freedom, prosperity, and the highest overall standard of living the world has ever known also came as a result of our capitalist culture for those who work for it. Although I love the daily dose of soci@lism, I can't help but notice the substitution of 'self-centered' for 'self-reliance'. We on this forum strive to be self sufficient and prepared. Soci@lists, on the other hand, love to shower the unprepared and unproductive with other peoples money so they can maintain power or calm their inner guilt.


There seems to be a misunderstanding. Self-reliance and self-centeredness are two different things. One does not imply the other. A self-centered person is not necessarily self-reliant. A self-reliant person can be quite charitable. In fact, how can one be charitable without being self-reliant first? Self-reliance should not be mistaken for the paranoid, selfish mentality of "every man for himself" and "all against all" that you sometimes see on prep forums. It is with this thought in mind that I wrote my post.

Capitalism is an economic system, and it is responsible for many things in our society today, both good and bad. The self-centered individuals, many of whom do not rely on themselves, are one of the bad outcomes.

I don't know why a discussion about soci@lism is relevant. It seems political, but I am interested in personal ethics, not politics. At the end of the day, it is my individual virtue that matters and what I have done to act right.


Edited by Bingley (11/18/11 05:30 AM)

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#235815 - 11/18/11 08:02 AM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: AKSAR]
Phaedrus Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3148
Loc: Big Sky Country
I sense this thread spiraling down the drain, so IBTL!

My one comment is that we don't even have the highest standard of living in the world now (maybe not even the highest in North America), much less the highest standard of all time. wink
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman

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#235826 - 11/18/11 12:28 PM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: AKSAR]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Also remember that while we saw a lot of bad things happen in certain places in the US during recent disasters there were other states in the US hit by disasters where people did cooperate and help each other, those just didn't make the news. Those area are and were just as nice as japan through out their disasters.

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#235830 - 11/18/11 01:31 PM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: AKSAR]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
I've seen my neighbors come together and help each other out on numerous occasions. We had the worst snow storm on record last year, coldest temperatures on record & we had a significant ice storm just a couple of years ago that left a huge percentage of homes without power for days to weeks. People who could stay in their homes kept watch over houses that were empty. People with generators kept food frozen for folks that didn't have power. Several people kept portable heaters running in empty homes to keep pipes from freezing.

The only troublemakers that I recall during all those issues was a carload of thugs who were obviously looking for easy pickings during the protracted power outages following the ice storm. The presence of those of us keeping an eye on things was enough to motivate them to move on. My experience has always been that there are more helpful people than harmful ones.

We all know that news agencies report issues that grab peoples attention. A group of people coming together and helping each other out just isn't very exciting I suppose.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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#236024 - 11/21/11 05:50 AM Re: Preparedness vs true resilience [Re: AKSAR]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Community resilience and individual resilience are intertwined.

The 'cowboy attitude' of every man for himself with a gun in each hand is more fiction than reality, mainly because it simply doesn't work out very well. For those who have read western (cowboy type) novels, there have been references to a gang of outlaws 'treeing' a town, but guess what? It's never happened. And the reason it has never happened is because the regular people refused to allow it.

Society exists because the individual can't do everything himself. He can't stand guard, sow/care for/harvest and preserve the crops, hunt for meat, treat the water, etc all by himself.

Even in our 'wild' west during the westward migration (such as the days of travel over the Oregon/Calif Trail), the people helped each other. Oxen and wagons would get stuck in mud, another family would hitch their oxen to the stuck wagon and with the two teams and men pushing, they would get the wagon out. Parents died of cholera and accidents, and other people picked up their children and took them along with them.

It is individual self-preservation that recognizes our inability to do it all ourselves. It has always been a matter of working together or failing, or dying, or dying out.

"United we stand, divided we fall" is more than just clever words. It's actually the bottom line.

Sue

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