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#235414 - 11/10/11 03:08 AM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: bacpacjac]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Just cook it really well. smile

Seriously though, most of those expiration dates on canned goods are a lot of hooey. And in a survival situation would I risk it? Yes.

HJ
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#235416 - 11/10/11 03:24 AM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
I wouldn't even keep expired caned goods. Do you really want to risk your health over a can of corn?

What exactly does that date on the can mean?

As shoppers, we see so many dates on things in the supermarket that are probably not what we think they mean. "Best by", "best used by", "sell by", "consume by", "expiration date", or the lone date, with no real explanation. They all have different meanings, many of which are not intended to be used by consumers at all.

Canned food will remain edible way, way past the date on the can. As long as the can is not damaged, nothing is going to grow inside. You won't get food poisoning from it. The primary problem with old canned goods is that the nutritional content (like vitamins) is dimishing over time, and the palatability (color, texture, consistency, etc.) of the food will change with time. That's all.

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#235418 - 11/10/11 04:22 AM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

Something so critical as an epi-pen or asthma inhaler, etc. I would keep current.

My veterinarian advised keeping my dog's various leftover ointments, etc that she's gotten for ear/eye/skin stuff. She said they'll be gradually less effective after the "sell by" date but they'll still be useful.

Foods can be fine a long while after the "sell by/best by" date -- which does not translate to: "lethal or unpalatable the day after." Sell by refers to optimal.

It's been awhile but I researched the subject once upon a time and tomato-based canned items go bad sooner because they are acidic. I did that research because I was in the process of making chili and discovered some canned ingredients were months past the sell by. No problemo.

I'll eat eggs (cooked) two or even three weeks after the sell by date (did that last week, in fact). A food scientist friend said that's fine. So far, no problems.

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#235423 - 11/10/11 05:28 AM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: chaosmagnet]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet

Never give anything by mouth to someone who's having problems breathing or swallowing.



Agreed - in my FAK I carry benadryl quick dissolve strips, its not swallowed or inhaled, it literally melts on the tongue in approx 20 seconds. They are sorta pricey, but they are also the best option for an emergency dose of benadryl I could find when you can't rely on an airway.

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#235429 - 11/10/11 12:44 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: NightHiker]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
I'd probably add a wool scarf but otherwise it looks pretty thorough to me. The Scout necker is a decent subsitute but a woolen scarf provides alot more warmth especially if you're in a wet environment (I'm guessing your neckers, like ours, are made of cotton). The USGI version is a tube style scarf (open at both ends) and is really versatile - can be worn like a toque or a gaiter, used as a hand muff, etc.

Are the 1L water bottle and the canteen both filled with water? If they are it might be an opportunity to cut out an item - I suppose it also depends on how much water you go through. It's never a bad idea to have a little extra when you're herding kids. Filling one with a warm sugary beverage (like Tang) is one option.

The nice thing about "urban" hikes is that overpacking doesnt carry the same consequences as it does on longer, more rigorous wilderness trips.


Right on all counts NightHiker. Our neckers are cotton. Wool is much better for warmth so I do add one like the USGI version once the sub-zero weather arrives. (We've hit those temps already this year, very briefly, and are currently but in low double digits during the day and singles at night.)

I keep both bottles full - one for myself and another for those that invariably forget (and for emergencies). It's the heaviest part of the kit but, like you say, this pack is for short hauls so it doesn't really become an issue.
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#235430 - 11/10/11 12:48 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: clearwater]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: clearwater
Seems like a lot of kids have severe allergies these days.

An Epi-Pen as a backup to any a child carries could make a big
difference. I have seen one fail before.


We do have on youth who is allergic to all black and yellow flying stingers. (Bees, wasps, hornets, etc.) His mom is a nurse at Toronto Sick Kids so is very prepped. He has his own backpack with 2 epipens and a cel phone in it. The drill with him is to jab and call 911 and jab again if things get worse before the ambulance arrives. He knows how to adminster it himself and we all know how to do it if he's can't.

Also have a youth who has asthma. He's got puffers and, again, know how to adminster them himselves. We're trained to watch and know when he needs to take a breather and when to encourage him to use those puffers. (One's pre-emptive and one's for a full blown attack, and it's important to help him remember the difference.)

As Scout leaders, we're not permitted to administer meds except in the most dire of circumstances, and only as our medical training allows. Following that protocol, I keep my personal meds with me, as well as meds for my son. I've always got extra to share with any parent that requests it but am not a walking pharmacy, especially on short hikes.


Edited by bacpacjac (11/10/11 12:59 PM)
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#235431 - 11/10/11 12:55 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
I don't see a decent shelter component in there. Every leader in the pack should have a basha/poncho/tarp on them. With fixing. Something happens, you need to get the kids out of the wind/sun/rain fast.


Thanks Leigh. You're right about the urgancy that could potentially arise. Lightening is one great example. On these shorter hikes, it's less likely, as we are very responsive to the weather and, with the younger Scouts, are likely to cancel the outting if the forescast is bad and the skies look to be argreeing.

Nonetheless, I need to be prepared. I've got a heatsheet, mylar blankets and contractor-sized garbage bag. Along with the string and duct tape in my kit, and the rope and tarp that's always in the group kit, I should be in good shape to construct something.

NOTE:

I should have given a better inventory of the group kits. Sorry. We carry two. One has a large thermos of hot chocolate, granola bars, mugs and FAK. The other has FAK, PSK, rope, tarp, a few emerg ponchos, extra lanyards with whistles, extra flashlights, 2 way radios,etc. We ask the parents to take turns carrying these, and inventory them with the parents before we hit the trailhead.
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#235432 - 11/10/11 12:57 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: Mark_R]
bacpacjac Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/05/07
Posts: 3601
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
My personal kit is a lot smaller, but with urban hikes I'm usually within a couple hundred yards of the road and taking it easy. I'm not guiding scouts.

*Pack - Small field (shoulder) bag. About ~6.5L capacity.
*Walking stick.
*Navigation kit - flashlight, baseplate compass, and map. No downsizing from the rural hikes kit.
*First aid - Sawyer extractor in the summer, nothing in cooler weather.
*Emergency - Storm whistle, full size lock-knife, lighter, flint, and tinder.
*Water bottle
*Depending on weather, location, and reason- Poncho, field guides with measuring tape and magnifying glass, notebook, sweater/jacket, and space blanket.



Nice kit Mark. This is on-par with what I carry on urban hikes with the family.
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#235438 - 11/10/11 03:37 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: Lono]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3821
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Lono
Agreed - in my FAK I carry benadryl quick dissolve strips, its not swallowed or inhaled, it literally melts on the tongue in approx 20 seconds. They are sorta pricey, but they are also the best option for an emergency dose of benadryl I could find when you can't rely on an airway.


Where do I find those?

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#235441 - 11/10/11 04:42 PM Re: Fall Kit for Urban Hikes [Re: chaosmagnet]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
Originally Posted By: Lono
Agreed - in my FAK I carry benadryl quick dissolve strips, its not swallowed or inhaled, it literally melts on the tongue in approx 20 seconds. They are sorta pricey, but they are also the best option for an emergency dose of benadryl I could find when you can't rely on an airway.


Where do I find those?


According to Benadryl's web site that product has been discontinued and no other similar product is available.

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