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#231864 - 09/11/11 05:03 AM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: LesSnyder]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 853
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: LesSnyder
Mark_R.... don't know about your opinion of kerosene lanterns, but I get good service out of my Dietz Air Pilot lantern ...it comes with one of the larger founts...I have a Little Wizard that has a longer burn time, but produces less light due to wick width....1-K Kerosene is about $10 a gallon if you can't find a bulk source...got mine at W.T. Kirkman Co.


I don't know much about kerosene lanterns. The only one's I've used ran off of white gas (Coleman Fuel) or propane. How are they (safety, smell, and lighting) for using indoors?
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#231868 - 09/11/11 07:10 AM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: Mark_R]
sheldon Offline
Newbie

Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 40
Originally Posted By: Mark_R
*Boil water order (Water filtration facilities at reduced capacity or inoperable)

In this situation, would a filter (one of those reviewed on this web site) be sufficient, or would you still need to boil the water?

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#231871 - 09/11/11 07:35 AM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: sheldon]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7078
Loc: southern Cal
No filtration technique is as universally effective as boiling water, and most households will not have a decent filter, but will have the means to boil.

I would bet that in most situations, a good filter would be just fine, assuming viruses were not an issue, but you are taking a chance....
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#231875 - 09/11/11 12:07 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: Russ]
LesSnyder Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/11/10
Posts: 1580
Loc: New Port Richey, Fla
Mark_R....even the refined 1-K kerosene has a bit of odor, but not objectionable (the FAQ on the Kirkman site does not recommend paraffin based lamp oils for the larger 7/8" wicks)..the Dietz lamps are designed to go out when tipped over (reduced oxygen)... I tried this and while the flame greatly reduced, a small flame remained...the light is not nearly as bright as a propane or Coleman fuel mantle lamp, but I always found the Coleman mantles fragile, and the lamps noisy in addition to producing a lot of heat, .. mantles also contain thorium which may be objectionable to some as it produces radon daughters... the light of the Air Pilot is listed at 14 candle power... the Little Wizard at 9 candle power...I have a pack of wicks for both sizes... during 04 the AP produced enough light to shave with...while I do have LED lanterns, I find something soothing about using the Dietz lanterns

for the boil order, I recently purchased a Sawyer .1 micron 5gal bucket filter kit (Adventure Safety Products), but have only tried it after initial installation, but it's my go to water filter, though I always have Clorox on hand..


Edited by LesSnyder (09/11/11 12:36 PM)

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#231892 - 09/11/11 04:35 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: hikermor]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Boiling will kill ALL the usual organic contamination, including viruses.

There are a few fungal and bacterial cooties that it won't kill, but they aren't generally water-borne. Clostridium botulinum bacteria, the active ingredient of botulism poisoning, is one of them, but it's found in food, not water.

"Boiling water is the best method for making water safe to drink. Boiling water as recommended will kill bacterial, parasitic, and viral causes of diarrhea. Adding a pinch of salt to each quart will improve the taste." From the Center for Disease Control

Sue

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#231910 - 09/11/11 07:54 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: Susan]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7078
Loc: southern Cal
That is basically what I said. Viruses are not normally caught by the filter usually employed in the backcountry. This is not an issue in the US, typically, but can be a problem in some localities abroad.

Me, I boil. Besides, I cherish my nice cup of tea.....
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#231955 - 09/12/11 02:51 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: hikermor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: hikermor
This is not an issue in the US, typically, but can be a problem in some localities abroad.

I assume that you're talking about the backcountry, but one of the primary reasons for a boil order is when sewage infiltrates (or may have infiltrated) the municipal water supply. That sewage can contain all manner of viruses that you wouldn't normally find out in the bush, like hepatitis, say. Whatever diseases humans can pass through the oral-fecal route is fair game.

Plus, a boil order needs to take all segments of the population in mind, such as infants, the elderly, and people with various conditions who have greatly weakened immune systems.

So, a filter may be fine in most cases for a heathly adult to use on a hiking trip, but that's not necessarily an equivalent situation as a boil order back in town. If you have any of these vulnerable segments of the population in your care, then it makes sense to boil.

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#231957 - 09/12/11 03:49 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: Arney]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7078
Loc: southern Cal
Excellent point. I was thinking of the back country/wilderness situation.

I do believe boiling is the way to go if you want to be sure. It is interesting that there are various recommendations for the length of time required to boil water to insure sterilization. I have seen recommendations for up to ten minutes, with five minutes often given as a requirement.

For many knowledgeable authorities, these times are excessively long. It is necessary only to bring the water to a rolling boil in order to kill pathogens.

The five minute rule apparently derives from the special case where you are sterilizing cloth in order to prepare dressings. There is evidently some kind of nasty beastie involved which does indeed require that much exposure to boiling conditions in order to die - can't remember the specifics for the life of me..
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#234911 - 11/01/11 03:56 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: Russ]
cajun_kw Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Southern California
I was off work that day, watching TV at the time. The power went out so I took a nap. After a couple hours I realized that apparently the power wasn't coming back right away. This pretty much never happens here in southern calif. So, I figured might be a good idea to get out my emergency radio and see what all the fuss was about.
Plenty of stressed out people on the radio ... folks whinning about this and that.
All my cars had greater than a half tank of gas. And while I tohught about maybe getting some ice ...I figured the rest of humanity was in the process of or already had bought out the readily available supply. So, figured ... its best to stay home.
Traffic was in chaos according to the radio which matched my expectation from past experience when I wasn't home when the power went out.
Broke out the flashlights, oil lamps and fired up the bar-b-que to make dinner on the back porch. Some of my backup stuff had low batteries so they got replaced from ready stock. Invited the newlywed neighbor kids who had nothing. Gave them a flashlight from backup stock. Fed 'em and invited 'em back for breakfast and hot coffee if power didn't come back by then, or even if it did.
Went to bed about 9pm or so ... since it seemed power wouldn't be back until morning. Set up my battery operated fan to stay cool in the bedroom. Slept fitfully.
Power came on in my neighborhood about 2 am. So fired up the ceiling fan and went back to sleep.
Lesson learned:
Having batteries in stock and backup lighting, candles and lanterns made for a low stress event.
We have plenty of food and water and even a portable ice maker ...though don't have a generator. So, that is on the list to get. And maybe upgrade to 5 gallons of stored gasoline in the shed. Only have 2 gallons now.
If we had paper plates, cups, bowls etc...neither the wife or I knew where they were. Saves on dirty dishes later on. Those have since been procured. We replaced our stock of batteries and picked up an LED table Lantern since it creates little heat and no open flame. Might get another to lessen the need to carry the one around the house.
Am considering a campaign to make all the emergency supplies more readily accessible as they are not all centrally located so as to keep the rummaging around to a minimum.
And will amp up my stock of items to have on hand for others no as readily prepared.
Overall, I thought things went well, though maybe next time I won't wait for 2 hrs to do anything. Just in case there is mre to the event than just a loss of electricity. Which is what I thought it was, but I didn't validate the perception right away. Maybe next time it will be something worse, so a lax response is probably not the best option.
It is however, not necessary to get to get yer panties in a twist if you are prepared.
Next time I hope I have my little backup generator, so I can set up my ice maker and start cranking out ice for my ready stock of beer and sodas... since the ready supply in the 'fridge will get exhausted quickly.
It pays to be prepared. Not in money so much ...but in less stress for me and my less prepared neighbors and friends.

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#234913 - 11/01/11 04:16 PM Re: Power blackout in SouthWest-SOCAL [Re: cajun_kw]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1916
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: cajun_kw

It pays to be prepared. Not in money so much ...but in less stress for me and my less prepared neighbors and friends.



Nice summation. I look at my water supply, food storage (not armageddon-worthy but the pup and I are good for a couple months), camping and emergency gear (home and car). Full tank of gas.

It is comforting to know that for any garden-variety emergency situation (power outage, natural disaster) I'm likely to encounter, that I won't need to join the panic onslaught at the stores or gas stations.

Going through the survival scenarios and prepping for them is also a good reminder that what's really important in life is pretty simple.

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