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#232739 - 09/25/11 11:47 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Alex]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Alex
Disclaimer: IMHO. Never applied to a real situation.
Originally Posted By: Bingley
Fog seems more suitable for police work, controlling crowds and such. Not sure how it can be used for self-defense.


#1. That's the hint. Use the fog. It needs more training and practice but absolutely much more effective than anything else using the OC. Also make sure you got a real thing, the bear spray is a finest example of a substance out of doubt (It stops such a complete animal).


Just to clarify, when I write the quoted sentence I thought fog meant fogger, rather than fog cone. Fox Labs recommends fog cone for civilian use, because it requires less accuracy. I don't know whether this means the police use stream. The fogger just goes everywhere. You drop the canister somewhere, after putting on your mask, of course.

As for the story possibly being an urban legend, the poster who shared the story claimed it happened to him, whatever that may mean. Anyway, the point was simply that there might be a lot of tears, choking, gasping for air, etc., from you or from bystanders.

Da Bing

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#232749 - 09/26/11 07:04 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
Oops sorry. For use against aggressive dogs when walking the neighborhood. My wife has had two "encounters" with two different dogs. She is used to dealing with our German Shepherds, so she managed to get away unharmed. She feels the need to carry something for defense. She is an excellent marks-woman, so I suspect that will translate to the spray.
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#232772 - 09/26/11 05:25 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Bingley]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Quote:
A guy reports that after he used a pepper spray on an assailant, the police came. They refused to take the bad guy to the station. Why? They didn't want to be in the same car with him. They made the good citizen who just defended himself drive the perp to the station.


That sounds like an urban legend. If the cops use pepper spray themselves, what do they do with the perps they've sprayed?

Otherwise, got a roof rack and some rope?

Actually, I've read somewhere that you can modify the effects with milk (I would go with whole milk), but I don't know if that is true.

But I've found that if I've eaten something that is too hot due to too much pepper, a spoonful of sugar with a little water in it instantly neutalizes the capsicum. So why wouldn't it work topically?

Would anyone care to do an experiment for the edification of the rest of us? grin

Sue

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#232775 - 09/26/11 05:41 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Susan]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
We used hose water and Johnson's Baby shampoo (fittingly it said, 'No More Tears' on the bottle) to get rid of the stuff. From what I'm told, that's what seems to work the best.

I'm not sure if OC spray uses some kind of oil base, but that's what it felt like. It's extremely difficult to remove completely. Next time I took a shower, after getting sprayed, it actually reactivated it enough to be quite unpleasant.

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#232777 - 09/26/11 05:51 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
I have not used the spray ... but I would offer these thoughts.

If you look at comments from people who have worked as prison guards, they will tell you that pepper spray does not work on all individuals. Some violent felons are just super-aggressive, and will carry out their actions after being sprayed. Therefore, don't imagine you've got a one-stop defense with this stuff.

I happened to be watching a screening of the TV show "Fear Factor" this weekend. Haven't watched that show in quite a while. Anyway - they took four motivated contestants and placed them inside a room with dense CNS gas. Really dense thick gas - you couldn't even see the ceiling from an inside camera. The object was to see how long each individual could tolerate the atmosphere, before they had to bail out (go outside for fresh air). The shortest time was 1 min 30 secs, and the longest was about 1 min 47 secs. Therefore, take this as a guideline. If you spray somebody, you should expect that they will keep fighting you for at least 90 seconds. That's a long time in an attack - your assailant can do a lot of damage in that time. This could include knocking you down, forcibly seizing the pepper spray cannister from your hand, and spraying you directly in the face with the spray.

Finally, many policemen who have used pepper spray in real sitations report that they have received some secondary inhalation of the spray themselves. Their eyes also became teary. So you should figure that you will get some spray too.

In spite of these drawbacks, it's probably a helpful tool for some situations. I think it would be especially useful against vicious animals - but i would still count on getting some effects of the spray on my own face and lungs. But the advanatage of using it against animals is that you are generally spraying downwards towards the ground - which takes the spray away from the level of your own face.

Pete2


Edited by Pete (09/26/11 05:56 PM)

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#232783 - 09/26/11 06:45 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Susan]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1576
Originally Posted By: Susan
Quote:
A guy reports that after he used a pepper spray on an assailant, the police came. They refused to take the bad guy to the station. Why? They didn't want to be in the same car with him. They made the good citizen who just defended himself drive the perp to the station.


That sounds like an urban legend. If the cops use pepper spray themselves, what do they do with the perps they've sprayed?


From what I can remember of the post, the policemen who came on the scene objected to the formulation of the spray the poster used when they recognized it. Apparently it was known to continue to irritate people in the vicinity of the spray subject afterwards. The policemen did not use the same spray. I'm not vouching for the veracity of this account. Again, my point was that there could be blow back one way or another. I guess a particularly dramatic account got us a little sidetracked.

We've been assuming that GarlyDog asked about using pepper spray against human assailants. But he wants to know about dogs. Whereas I can claim a bit of google knowledge about the former, about animals I am utterly ignorant. Handing over the stage...

Maybe someone could post to the mailmen forum? All joking aside, they must know something about this. For one, I noticed a mailman carrying a spray on his mail bag the other day.

Da Bing

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#232784 - 09/26/11 06:50 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
Mark_R Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: GarlyDog
Oops sorry. For use against aggressive dogs when walking the neighborhood. My wife has had two "encounters" with two different dogs. She is used to dealing with our German Shepherds, so she managed to get away unharmed. She feels the need to carry something for defense. She is an excellent marks-woman, so I suspect that will translate to the spray.


I asked a similiar question a while back concerning large aggressive dogs and inadaquate containment.
http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=225825&page=1
The consensus was a sturdy walking stick used as a thrusting weapon (try to jam it down killer's throat) or pepper spray. FWIW pepper gel has a much longer claimed range, 18 ft vs 8 ft, then the cone type sprayers. Just expect to dance around the doggie for a couple of seconds before it reaches full affect.
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#232795 - 09/26/11 08:51 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
THIRDPIG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/26/01
Posts: 81
I like Fox brand in a stream. Its often windy here and stream seems the best for that. Wind can make any type a gamble though.

I work for a "urban" FD the cops I know like and use Punch II in a "burst stream" thats a stream thats dumps a lot at once like 4-5 shots per 2 oz can instead of 20 or so .

I've tested a few types, the foggers if any wind blow all over,same for cones and such. Ever spray paint in the wind ?

Some of that stuff will come out 2 feet and make a right hand turn...

The stuff is cheap,buy a few cans and test at least one to learn how far it shoots, how many "shots" you get,how hard you have to press. I had one can that had tabs you first broke while pressing then as you kept pressing you would reach the spray button. I cut the tabs to begin with, when I tested the can I stopped to look at it to see what the problem was as I was pressing hard and nothing was spraying....

It took great force to spray,NO THANKS. tossed 'em.

Fox cop top is nice.

The Mailmen use Halt. Its a very weak,pepper spray by todays standards. Many years ago,like the late '70's I carried it while biking. I used it twice on dogs and it worked fast and well both times. One of the guys on my crew worked for the cable co. before getting on the job,they also used Halt and he too had great luck with it.

So I would think that brand like Fox,Punch, Saber red would work even better.


Edited by THIRDPIG (09/26/11 09:03 PM)

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#232804 - 09/26/11 11:59 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Susan]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
Originally Posted By: Susan
Quote:
A guy reports that after he used a pepper spray on an assailant, the police came. They refused to take the bad guy to the station. Why? They didn't want to be in the same car with him. They made the good citizen who just defended himself drive the perp to the station.


That sounds like an urban legend. If the cops use pepper spray themselves, what do they do with the perps they've sprayed?

Otherwise, got a roof rack and some rope?

Actually, I've read somewhere that you can modify the effects with milk (I would go with whole milk), but I don't know if that is true.

But I've found that if I've eaten something that is too hot due to too much pepper, a spoonful of sugar with a little water in it instantly neutalizes the capsicum. So why wouldn't it work topically?

Would anyone care to do an experiment for the edification of the rest of us? grin

Sue


If cops don't want to transport someone, they do not recruit a citizen, they call ems, and let the paramedics transport the maced, tased, vomiting, bleeding, hysterical, or contaminated person; EMS deposits this item in the nearest er. Sometimes ems treats/decontaminates/subdues the item on the way-note the firetruck following the ambulance. Firetrucks are dynamite little de-contaminators. The ER (in my experience) uses vast volumes of soap and water to wash off the ick, and eye irrigation with saline.

Sugar confuses the taste nerve impulses, I suspect, much like cold application can interfere with pain impulses in dealing with an athletic injury. Sugar is probably less effective topically.

Latest move has placed me in a neighborhood with a vast collection of free-roaming dogs. I chose to get an airhorn to discourage interaction-hate to mace the dogs, who are just being dogs-quite willing to mace the dumb owners. Saw airhorns in use at a dog-boarding facility to break up fights, and they seem to work well. No personal experience yet.
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#232886 - 09/28/11 01:31 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I wonder how pepper spray would affect a perp who was under the influence of PCP (angel dust)?

If a man on PCP with two broken femurs can walk (somewhat) into an ER, how would pepper spray affect him?

Sue

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