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#233097 - 10/01/11 11:48 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
I got a few cans with the stream delivery. They have nylon straps you can always have it in your hand. Target practice tomorrow.
_________________________
Gary








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#233101 - 10/02/11 01:49 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: chaosmagnet]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
I probably would not use OC in my house.

1) I may have to move. I can't do that nearly as well if the hallway is full of OC. I don't own a gas mask.

2) If I can't immediately find my wife and children and make sure they're safe, I'm going to move towards the intruder and be ready to neutralize any threat. OC spray isn't usually the best choice for this.

3) OC spray isn't as effective as firearms are in trained hands. In a home invasion, I'm not beholden to a police officer's continuum of force, I'm not trying to deter a low-grade threat, and I'm not in a non-permissive environment. There is no reason for me to not use the most effective tools at my disposal.


I used to share your philosophy, but I have reconsidered. IMO, the only way a firearm is a deterrent is if it is immediately available day or night. If it is locked up, could you get it in time? I couldn't figure a way to turn on a light, find my glasses, open my gunsafe, and deploy a weapon in the 15 seconds it would take someone to break out my bedroom window and jump in.

Back then, my solution was to hide a pistol in my nightstand, or lean a shotgun behind the door.

But:

Am I going to remember to lock it up every time I leave for milk and eggs?...No

What if the intruder was in the house when I or my wife came home, and had found the gun?
What if the unexpected footsteps in the hall was not a burglar, but a family member? (Do your adult kids have access to a house key?)
If the intruder is already armed, he would have the jump on me. If not, I don't want to arm him.

My solution:

A light-sleeping house dog with a ferocious bark, a large can of Sabre OC Red and a tactical light in each nightstand, with a followup welcome with a weighted billy (all of which I am thoroughly trained to use).

If I accidently mace my practical-joker son who comes home on leave from the Air Force unexpectedly, or my daughter who comes home from college without calling, we get a do-over. With the gun, we don't.

Don't get me wrong, I am an NRA member, and Second Amendment supporter. I just can't figure out a safe way to protect my house from intrusion with my guns.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#233106 - 10/02/11 03:04 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Byrd_Huntr]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 3309
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Byrd_Huntr
I used to share your philosophy, but I have reconsidered. IMO, the only way a firearm is a deterrent is if it is immediately available day or night. If it is locked up, could you get it in time? I couldn't figure a way to turn on a light, find my glasses, open my gunsafe, and deploy a weapon in the 15 seconds it would take someone to break out my bedroom window and jump in.


We have a silent, push-button pistol safe next to our bed, which either of us can open in the dark. I can get my glasses on and put a pistol in my hand in just a few seconds. My bedside pistol has a mounted weaponlight, although I use a separate flashlight (there's one in the pistol safe for each of us) for target identification.

My house layout is such that I have quite a bit more than fifteen seconds to arm myself before a home invader could be in my bedroom without rappelling off the roof -- not even close to a realistic threat. All this assumes that the dogs do not slow down any intruders.

Quote:
A light-sleeping house dog with a ferocious bark, a large can of Sabre OC Red and a tactical light in each nightstand, with a followup welcome with a weighted billy (all of which I am thoroughly trained to use).


This sounds very reasonable.

Quote:
If I accidently mace my practical-joker son who comes home on leave from the Air Force unexpectedly, or my daughter who comes home from college without calling, we get a do-over. With the gun, we don't.


These are situations I do not currently face. Also, I train regularly on shoot/no-shoot targets and I always make positive identification before covering anything with the muzzle of a gun.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I am an NRA member, and Second Amendment supporter. I just can't figure out a safe way to protect my house from intrusion with my guns.


I'm thinking that a different safe might work better for you. You may also want to plan to have one parent armed with OC and a billy while the other gets glasses, light and gun. It's also entirely possible that your situation is best served with the defensive measures that you're using. It's clear to me that you've been very thoughtful about it.

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#233110 - 10/02/11 09:38 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: chaosmagnet]
Byrd_Huntr Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 01/28/10
Posts: 1174
Loc: MN, Land O' Lakes & Rivers ...
[quote=chaosmagnetI'm thinking that a different safe might work better for you. You may also want to plan to have one parent armed with OC and a billy while the other gets glasses, light and gun. It's also entirely possible that your situation is best served with the defensive measures that you're using. It's clear to me that you've been very thoughtful about it. [/quote]

Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. I am going out to look at the current crop of pistol safes to see if I can find one that meets our needs. As for my current defensive plan, we call it the "Bit, Basted & Beat" plan.
_________________________
The man got the powr but the byrd got the wyng

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#233117 - 10/02/11 11:36 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
GarlyDog Offline
τΏτ
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
Since I got my question answered, I will respond to some of the off topic posts that are interesting.

This is only for protection on walks at the moment. For home protection, I'm not really worried. I have four full grown German Shepherds which are all personally trained Schutzhunds.

The purpose of the four dogs is to buy me the precious time I need to get my secured gun. But I am reconsidering this in favor of Byrds, horse sense.
_________________________
Gary








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#236905 - 12/06/11 08:57 PM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
TeacherRO Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2396
By the way - Train with the stuff. Holster, safety off, aim spray, move...and DO use a holster.

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#236934 - 12/07/11 06:29 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: Susan]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2138
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Susan
But I've found that if I've eaten something that is too hot due to too much pepper, a spoonful of sugar with a little water in it instantly neutalizes the capsicum. So why wouldn't it work topically?

It does. That's why Fox Labs (makers of high quality pepper spray) sell "Sudecon" decontamination wipes. The wipes are: water, sugar, and baby shampoo.

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#236937 - 12/07/11 06:45 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: haertig]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2138
Loc: Colorado
I think the only way I'd use pepper spray is if I could identify an upcoming attack plenty in advance, know that my assailant was unarmed, could nail him in he face with the spray from a good 10-15 feet out, and then outrun him after spraying without him ever being able to touch me. Of course this unfolding of events would have ME being the assailant, not the bad guy. So it's hypothetical at best.

Other than that scenario, I'd prefer to have a gun every time.

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#236942 - 12/07/11 06:58 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: GarlyDog]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2815
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Aside:
This thread gets me to wondering about the 4-5 expired bear spray cannisters I have kicking around. Some sort of repurposing as a "Plan B" perhaps? Thoughts about degradation of active ingredient over time (full propellant weight present)?

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#236944 - 12/07/11 07:40 AM Re: Pepper Spray question [Re: dougwalkabout]
Richlacal Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 778
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Would/Could there be a method of extracting the pepper/capsicum from the expired cans without getting dosed/dowsed or hurt,& then loading the material into a squirt bottle for let's say rodent deterrent or something?Kind of a big bummer to dispose of $25+ per can & Not actually had the use of it,not that encountering a Bear close/personable would be a pleasure that's for sure! confused

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