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#231393 - 09/04/11 09:31 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: haertig]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: haertig
Originally Posted By: ireckon
If your service uses 128-bit or 256-bit encryption BEFORE your data is sent to them over the Internet, then your data can't be decrypted by using a backdoor key.

And there's the catch. You may indeed be using your KEY, but you are using THEIR ALGORITHM. Good encryption requires both a strong key and a rock solid algorithm. And the algorithm should be open source so anybody and everybody can review it. A strong algorithm does NOT depend on secrecy for being strong. For all you know, the service providers algorithm may be nothing more than "take the first character of the users key and prepend that to their data stream". Of course that's a silly contrived example, but it illustrates my point.

Also, if they use a proprietary algorithm, and then they go out of business, how are you going to unencrypt your own data (unless you stored a second copy elsewhere for your self)?


If you can provide a case where somebody's data was hacked on a major service without it being user error, then please share. Otherwise, I'm not going to stress. If a service says their using 256-bit encryption, it's a matter of reading up and developing trust with a company I guess. You could also be paranoid to the point of not wanting to put your money in a bank.

On my service, I lost my encryption key one time. I talked to a tech supervisor and was willing to pay good money for them to recover my data. Nope, it was impossible. They don't store the keys, and the data is useless to them without the encryption key.

Regarding the part about a company going out of business, note that you have this risk even if you're using TrueCript, unless you're running your own external database over the Internet. Anyway, how likely is it that they'll go out of business right before a disaster? One way to hedge against that unlikely risk is to use two services.

Also, if you can figure out how to use TrueCrypt with my service's syncing function, then let me know. I backup all my files at least once per day. If I can't sync with TrueCrypt, then it's not practical for me to use it.
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#231403 - 09/04/11 11:26 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: Eugene]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
T r u e C r y p t
Free open-source disk encryption software

There is no company to go out of business. With open source if the project would be abandoned by its original authors someone else can pick it up or someone else can make a way to get your data back out of it.
I run all open source after being burned before. Imagine you made a simple database for your home insurance inventory in Microsoft access 1.0 and then 10 years later you need to file a claim and you find out that you can't get Access 1.0 to work on your current OS and import support for 1.0 was dropped a couple versions ago. You then have to search out and OS old enough to run the old version then search for the old version. I've been there and done that both for myself and clients who put important data into a closed source app and find out they can't read that data later.
I 1. stick wit open source and 2. do test restores of old data. to be sure I can still get it if needed.
I've been burned by MS access, MS Visio ,MS money and even had a couple old pfd's that wouldn't read in modern versions.

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#231447 - 09/05/11 05:24 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: Eugene]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
I already got the point about TrueCrypt being open source and not going out of business, and it's well taken. However, if you aren't going to slow down and figure out what I'm asking, then how can I trust that you fully understand what you're preaching?

My point above about TrueCrypt is that you still have to store your data on an external database system. (We are talking about external backup over the Internet, not local backup.) That external database system can go out of business, just like Carbonite (or similar) can go out of business. However, if you're running Carbonite (or similar) you have a monthly bill. So, you're forced to keep track if and when Carbonite went out of business, and you can adapt in a timely manner.

In contrast, with the database where you store your TrueCrypt files, it's quite likely a person won't check the database but twice a year. So, although your TrueCrypt would be fully capable of decrypting your files, there may not be any files to decrypt. Unlikely? Well, we are talking about unlikely scenarios after all.

QUESTIONS:

Can you sync with TrudCrypt? I need to sync about 80 GB of data. In other words, I need it to update only the changed files. I like the idea of TrueCrypt, but if I can't sync, then I can't use.

What is a reliable external database for storing your TrueCrypt files? I need to store externally over the Internet. I'm NOT talking about local storage, and I'm NOT talking about saving to an external hard drive and physically taking it to an external location.
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#231448 - 09/05/11 05:42 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: ireckon]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Convenience is the enemy of security. Security is the enemy of convenience. You have to find where in the spectrum you sit to balance things out.

Personally, I work in computer security, networking, proramming, etc. so quite predictably I sit on the high security/low convenience end. What might be considered inconvenient to some, is normal everyday to me. But that is not to say that the way I do things is the right way for everyone. Online encrypted storage through a third party provider is miles ahead of no backups at all.

With online storage, you are at the mercy of having a working internet connection to access your data. Access is not a given in a disaster situation. But if your data is not time-critical for you to access, online storage may be just fine for you. And if the data you store is not really all that important, storing/encrypting to keep 99% of the hackers out may be a perfectly fine tradeoff too. "Tradeoff" meaning, dropping down to 99% security adds much convenience for you, in that you WILL backup your data at this level of convenience, but you probably would NOT go to the inconvenience of handling things at the 99.99% security level.

For most people, 99% security/accessibility (I just made that number up as an example) is perfectly adequate. The biggest issue I see for most people, is the questionable internet access that may keep them from accessing their data during a disaster. The chance of a company going out of business and you losing access to your online stored data forever is probably an acceptable risk for the vast majority of folks. That risk is certainly better than not backing up your data at all.

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#231454 - 09/05/11 06:20 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: haertig]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
Before this gets out of hand like another similar thread, can we all understand that backup over the Internet is ONE backup layer of many? I understand it's not perfect, but it's ONE layer and has advantages that some of the other layers don't have. I'd rather not argue about why Internet backup sucks because, again, it's ONE layer.

Now, assuming that I'm talking about external backup over the Internet, is TrueCrypt a good way to go? To keep it simple and focused, I'd prefer if someone can answer the questions from my previous post...

QUESTIONS:

Can you sync with TrudCrypt? I need to sync about 80 GB of data. In other words, I need it to update only the changed files. I like the idea of TrueCrypt, but if I can't sync, then I can't use.

What is a reliable external database for storing your TrueCrypt files? I need to store externally over the Internet. I'm NOT talking about local storage, and I'm NOT talking about saving to an external hard drive and physically taking it to an external location.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#231456 - 09/05/11 06:32 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: ireckon]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Now, assuming that I'm talking about external backup over the Internet, is TrueCrypt a good way to go? To keep it simple and focused, I'd prefer if someone can answer the questions from my previous post.

No, I don't think TrueCrypt or any other local-based encryption/storage method would be the way to go for you. You have stated your requirement for the convenience that is provided by online storage like Carbonite, and I think that is the best solution for you. Other solutions might provide better security and better accessability, but they will require more computer knowledge and will be more inconvenience to use.

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#231457 - 09/05/11 06:45 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: ireckon]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
Originally Posted By: ireckon
I already got the point about TrueCrypt being open source and not going out of business, and it's well taken. However, if you aren't going to slow down and figure out what I'm asking, then how can I trust that you fully understand what you're preaching?


I read "Regarding the part about a company going out of business, note that you have this risk even if you're using TrueCript"

I thought you meant the company truecrypt going out of business, has nothing do so with slowing down, it wasn't clear that you meant the online backup company going out of business or the encryption company going out of business.
I've lost data to both, if you want an online example, hotmail lost all my data years ago when I was using them (the e-mail documents to yourself to store in e-mail).

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#231460 - 09/05/11 08:33 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: Eugene]
ireckon Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/01/10
Posts: 1629
Loc: Northern California
IDrive is one service that meets the following requirements:

1. Backup onto an external database over the Internet.
2. Reasonable assurance the database is maintained to withstand foreseeable disasters.
3. Syncing capability for 150 GB or more that allows efficient backup at least once per day.
4. Reasonable assurance of data security (i.e., solid encryption method).

We're always talking about surviving massive disasters in the future, but what about surviving my everyday life right now? IDrive saves locally deleted files until I wipe them out on IDrive. This nice little feature has saved my ass on several occasions in everyday life, and is something I have not found in another service within this price range.

Again, regarding the issue of going out of business or out of date, I pay a monthly fee. I'll know IDrive hasn't gone out of business, or out of date, in the last 30 days at worst. Actually, I backup at least once per day, and so I would know if IDrive went out of business within the last 24 hours. Anyway, I have not read of any such problems with any online backup service.

Although I do admit TrueCrypt has its place, it still doesn't offer what I need based on my requirements here. I go through this exercise about once per year.
_________________________
If you're reading this, it's too late.

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#231509 - 09/06/11 03:07 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: ireckon]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: ireckon
Before this gets out of hand like another similar thread...


Haha, I was thinking the same thing reading this thread: "this whole track sounds very familiar...". I think it was the same players too, thus I had to chime in to keep the vibe up. grin

I use SyncBack and TrueCrypt to manage multiple backups on multiple (but local) sites. I am investigating the online backup services to add another layer.

I hope this thread continues but with less vitriol than last time. We have a lot of valuable expertise on the forum.

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#231553 - 09/06/11 09:51 PM Re: Organizing the Important Documents Binder [Re: ireckon]
desolation Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Originally Posted By: ireckon

QUESTIONS:

Can you sync with TrudCrypt? I need to sync about 80 GB of data. In other words, I need it to update only the changed files. I like the idea of TrueCrypt, but if I can't sync, then I can't use.

What is a reliable external database for storing your TrueCrypt files? I need to store externally over the Internet. I'm NOT talking about local storage, and I'm NOT talking about saving to an external hard drive and physically taking it to an external location.


You can use TrueCrypt to encrypt folders or drives. You can mount the drives/folders(decrypted) and they work just like any other mounted disk. So yes, you can sync. Download it and give it a whirl. I'm not particularly computer savvy and found it pretty straight forward.

You could then upload to a draft email, Google account, etc. free of charge (within their storage parameters). Personally, I just make an encrypted back-up that stays at home and one of essential data on a thumb drive that goes with me. I don't need any more of my personal info floating about the net than already exists (encrypted or not).

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