Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 15 of 15 < 1 2 ... 13 14 15
Topic Options
#231405 - 09/04/11 11:59 PM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: Russ]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1078
Loc: Alaska
The importance of a good cup of coffee is not to be underestimated!
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
#231406 - 09/05/11 12:20 AM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: AKSAR]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077

Quote:
While UK power is distributed on pylons that look strong enough to survive a nuclear blast, much of America including my supposedly sophisticated neighbourhood is served by wires strung along ancient wooden poles


This is an interesting point though as it would appear that the electrical grid supply in the USA is done on the cheap and not very resilient to gale force winds as has been recently discovered. I have even discovered that the multitude of pole transformers i.e. the last transformer before the residence (7,200 volts into the 220-240-120 volts) actually has in many circumstances aluminium windings to save on cost. crazy

http://www.temcotransformer.com/poletransformer.html



In the UK the last transformer is ground based usually behind a brick surrounding wall or building with the 240V 3 phase distribution (1 phase per residence) cables mostly being buried. Here is an unusual Transformer that doesn't have a protective wall structure.

This is not an easily solved problem, but rather than just repair the poles and pole transformers etc, perhaps over time the infrastructure needs heavy investment for underground cables or these week long outages will just re-occur with the next kite flying weather day.

Top
#231409 - 09/05/11 01:20 AM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Quote:
...it would appear that the electrical grid supply in the USA is done on the cheap...


No, it's just very old.

The 'cheap' are the people who refuse to replace our grid until it's absolutely, positively necessary. Maybe they're waiting for an alien EMP attack.

Sue


Edited by Susan (09/05/11 01:21 AM)

Top
#231421 - 09/05/11 08:39 AM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: Jesselp]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Somerset UK
The burying of high voltage, high capacity lines is a costly busines, therefore these are normally overhead both in the UK and in the USA.
Local distribution at voltages of a few thousand volts is more readily buried. Here in the UK most local distribution is at 11,000 volts, buried in all but rural areas.
Pole mounted transformers in rural areas reduce the voltage to 240/415 for use by isolated buildings or small groups of buildings.
In built up areas, the 11,000 volts is reduced to 240/415 by large transformers each serving many customers. The cables are normally buried in built up areas.
The transformers are normally located at ground level in small buildings erected for the purpose, these are immune to flooding unless it is very deep. In city centers the transformers are often in basements and therefore vulnerable to flooding.

Bad weather frequently causes outages in remote or rural areas as the wind brings down the lines.
Weather induced outages in urban areas are very rare in the UK.

Even urban areas might in theory be vulnerable to outages caused by weather damage to the overhead high voltage grid lines. In practice it is seldom a problem in the UK.

Most power outages in urban areas are caused by excavations damaging cables, or by the flooding of transformer substations when these are underground.

The USA system with more pole mounted equipment is vulnerable to high winds and impact by vehicles, but less vulnerable to flooding.
Failures of pole mounted equipment are normally obvious and repairs easily arranged.
Faults in underground cables are less readily located and may require extensive excavations to repair.

Top
#231432 - 09/05/11 12:29 PM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Quote:
It's doable, but when it comes to private industry you can't make them improve anything if they don't see a 200% profit gain.


http://www.energybulletin.net/node/43823

It would seem that the last 2 nodes on the grid network, i.e. the local 7200 Volt to 220/120V transmission distribution on 50 year old wooden poles are the least of the problem.

The idea of a free market in electrical energy supply and a unified robust electrical grid transmission network are somewhat mutually exclusive.

Quote:
The 'cheap' are the people who refuse to replace our grid until it's absolutely, positively necessary.

Any idea when and where that tipping point comes? Hopefully it won't be with Hurrican Katia sometime next week if the Canadian track forecast is a possibility (similar to the 38 Long Island express track). A large area storm with gale force winds (Irene) for the most part saw 8+ Million customers without power last week. Or will it be a Carrington solar storm event leaving 300+ million without power for months on end together with a few melted down nuclear Fukishima style reactors be the tipping point for consumer anger and frustration.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/05/11 12:49 PM)

Top
#231436 - 09/05/11 02:58 PM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
bws48 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 816
Loc: Anne Arundel County, Maryland
+1 Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Much of U.S. infrastructure, especially in and around the cities, is slowly failing. Each year, for example, more and more water mains are leaking and breaking. Many of them were installed 80 to 100 years ago. Bridges are another example of aging infrastructure that requires increasing maintenance and/or replacement. I don't think there is really a full grasp on the magnitude of the problem or costs.
_________________________
"Better is the enemy of good enough."

Top
#231464 - 09/05/11 10:17 PM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: AKSAR]
chaosmagnet Offline
Sheriff
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 2878
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: AKSAR
The importance of a good cup of coffee is not to be underestimated!


My wife is not someone I want to be around until she has her coffee. If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Welcome aboard!

Top
#231472 - 09/06/11 01:29 AM Re: Hurricane Irene [Re: chaosmagnet]
AKSAR Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1078
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
My wife is not someone I want to be around until she has her coffee. If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.

Welcome aboard!
I am probably someone you would not want to be around before I've had my coffee! wink

Glad to be aboard.
_________________________
"Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more."
-Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz

Top
Page 15 of 15 < 1 2 ... 13 14 15



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Who's Online
2 registered (Tjin, Russ), 220 Guests and 5 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Ak47Lover, Nari, Begaye, JDanny, Just
5246 Registered Users
Newest Posts
MRE shortage
by Roarmeister
05:55 PM
Clothes Pin Zapper (gun)
by Roarmeister
05:51 PM
Abject Failure
by dougwalkabout
04:20 PM
Bandaids That Don't Stick (Rant)
by Tjin
06:35 AM
How I have sharpened a Machete
by hikermor
12:40 AM
How to sharpen a machete
by chaosmagnet
05:40 PM
the 10 essentials...prep for camping/hiking
by brandtb
12:21 PM
Camping is love
by dougwalkabout
12:54 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.